Posted by TJ Burns on July 01, 1997 at 03:52:04 PDT
in reply to Re: Good bye and a question ... (1013), posted by Patriot on June 30, 1997 at 21:30:18 PDT

>
> > > Dear Readers,

> > > Today is going to be my last day on the message boards .
> > > I decided to post this message here, because this is where
> > > I started it all . Alvaro, Hal/Wally in 2000, Plaid Skull,
> > > Albert B. Ching, Peter Eng, Zero, Guardian, TJ Burns,
> > > Rob, Falcon, Captain America, David Meddininus,
> > > Tlesch, Grand Kaiser, Batroc, BubbaBubba2, James,
> > > J.P., Deus ( the devil dog ) !, Emerald Ape, Superboy,
> > > Dave, Kirk, Roscoe, Tobin, Canadude, Caliban, Black Cat,
> > > Grrovy Chic, Scarlet Speedster, Spider-Man, Citezen V,
> > > Atlas, Dan, Rocy Leech, Ned Leeds Jr., Apollo, Jeff,
> > > Patriot, Onslaught, Big Sal, Jack Monroe, Micheal Kaiser,
> > > ect., I would just like to say I'll miss all of you, okay ?
> > > And since this is my last day here, could you respond to this
> > > question within an our, please ? When is Rob Liefeld's AA or FA
> > > due out ( AA- Agent America, FA- Fighting American ) ? And is AA
> > > or FA going to look different than his original look ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,

> > > Jamie

> > Eh, I don't know the answer to either of these, but I'm pretty sure he'll look a bit different. The uni I saw had a star in a circle on his chest...it looked like an updated, 90's version of the 50's FA costume.

> > -Roscoe

> Sadly, I'm pretty sure FA still looks like AA. He looks like a bad knock off of Cap with a silver shield. That's all I'm saying. Let's all try to set an example and ignore it from here on in.
> I hope you see this Jamie and thanks for including me since I've only been here a couple of weeks.

> Patriot salutes you.

Thanks for naming me as well. Goodbye, my friend. Why are you leaving, anyway?

TJB

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Posted by TJ Burns on July 01, 1997 at 03:54:15 PDT
in reply to Re: USAgent's duds (1009), posted by Patriot on June 30, 1997 at 15:25:00 PDT

>
> > > > US Agent's last appearence was in the final issue of Force Works. They were hinting a possible romance between Spider Woman and him. Maybe they're seeing each other on the West Coast.
> > > > I would like to see him again in something. I think a disciplined individual like himself would fit in the Heroes For Hire lot quite well. I just hope that his costume gets a change. I'd rather see him in th Super Patriot togs then that awful outfit designed in Force Works. The mask made him look like an idiot.
> > > > I also think if Marvel is looking for a West Coast team that John has learned from his mistakes and is ready to lead a super team.

> > > > Patriot.

> > >
> > > I agree. The Force Works costume blew. I liked the 'Captain' uniform; the black one w/ the stripes on the torso. It was different enough from the classic Cap costume that a revision was unnecessary.

> > > Falcon

> > The Force Works costume sucked. I believe Marvel should reform the WCA
> > and let Jack be a member. (With War Machine in charge.) If not, Marvel should add Jack and War Machine to H4H. I think Jack should take up the costume and possibly the identity of Citizen V when Zemo drops it.

> >
> > TJB

> Citizen V is waaay to contrary to John's style. I don't think there was anything wrong with the name or MOST of the FW costume. I just hated the mask. There was a backup story in Issue #4 I think where the artist made a goof and John's mask looked more like Guardian's (James Hudson). That would look really cool.
> One more thing, can we agree to call US Agent by his real name: John? The name Jack to me will always represent the not so late but incredibly great Jack Monroe.

> Patriot

> P.S. Bring back NOMAD!

Agreed. Now that I look at it, the mask was the bad part.

TJB

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Posted by TJ Burns on July 01, 1997 at 03:56:19 PDT
in reply to Re: Don't thank God yet. (1010), posted by Roscoe on June 30, 1997 at 17:26:00 PDT

> > >
> > > > > > Well, since Captain America isn't using the name "Agent America"
> > > > > > anymore, I feel that I should use the name . After all, I am a major
> > > > > > fan of AA . Oh, and feel free to use the names "Nightwing", "Flash",
> > > > > > and " Quicksilver " . I don't want to use these names anymore, okay ?
> > > > > > So, all of you readers, remember that these names are now available .

> > > > > > Agent America

> > > > > How can you be a fan of a charcter that not only has never appeared, but by the looks of it never will? They have put the AA project on the shelf for what looks to be the rest of eternity.

> > > > > -Roscoe

> > > > Thank God for that.

> > > > TJB

> > > Liefeld is still puttting out AA only he's calling it Fighting American. Simon and Kirby came up with the concept long ago. Leifeld bought the rights to the name and now Marvel has to back down from stopping him.
> > > However, I'm not by any means encouraging anyone to buy it. I hope everyone ignores it and it becomes the worst flop in comic history.
> > > Patriot.

>
> > ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Please say it ain't so!!

> >
> > TJB

> It is so, but...god help me...to my mind it gives the project an air of respectability. Fighting American is a Simon and Kirby creation, he has a long and storied history (not alot ofstories, but...) and is a real honest to goodness viable character. Wheras AA was just a spiteful rip-off designed for no purpose other than petty revenge. I am sorry Simon and the estate of Kirby agreed to let Liefield use FA, but on the other hand it is noce to see FA in the published ranks again.

> Of course, there's no way I am going to buy it.

> -Roscoe

Yes, but will Liefield recognize this history. After his Captain America, I'd bet not.

TJB

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Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 05:31:45 PDT
in reply to Good bye and a question ... (1011), posted by Jamie on June 30, 1997 at 20:27:20 PDT

> Dear Readers,
> Today is going to be my last day on the message boards .
> I decided to post this message here, because this is where
> I started it all . Alvaro, Hal/Wally in 2000, Plaid Skull,
> Albert B. Ching, Peter Eng, Zero, Guardian, TJ Burns,
> Rob, Falcon, Captain America, David Meddininus,
> Tlesch, Grand Kaiser, Batroc, BubbaBubba2, James,
> J.P., Deus ( the devil dog ) !, Emerald Ape, Superboy,
> Dave, Kirk, Roscoe, Tobin, Canadude, Caliban, Black Cat,
> Grrovy Chic, Scarlet Speedster, Spider-Man, Citezen V,
> Atlas, Dan, Rocy Leech, Ned Leeds Jr., Apollo, Jeff,
> Patriot, Onslaught, Big Sal, Jack Monroe, Micheal Kaiser,
> ect., I would just like to say I'll miss all of you, okay ?
> And since this is my last day here, could you respond to this
> question within an our, please ? When is Rob Liefeld's AA or FA
> due out ( AA- Agent America, FA- Fighting American ) ? And is AA
> or FA going to look different than his original look ?
»
> Thanks,Jamie
»>>Jamie, I hate to see you go. Even though we don't see eye to eye on alot of things, it's always nice to have an opposing view to keep yourself in check. I don't know how old you are, but I think you have matured alot since I read your first posts. You never did tell us what you are going to be doing. I suspecting you are going to a nice job at Awesome Entertainment. Well, hope you come back for a visit some time and stir the pot a little. For that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper.

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Posted by TLesch on July 01, 1997 at 06:14:33 PDT
in reply to Re: Good bye and a question ... (1018), posted by TJ Burns on July 01, 1997 at 03:52:04 PDT

> >
> > > > Dear Readers,

> > > > Today is going to be my last day on the message boards .
> > > > I decided to post this message here, because this is where
> > > > I started it all . Alvaro, Hal/Wally in 2000, Plaid Skull,
> > > > Albert B. Ching, Peter Eng, Zero, Guardian, TJ Burns,
> > > > Rob, Falcon, Captain America, David Meddininus,
> > > > Tlesch, Grand Kaiser, Batroc, BubbaBubba2, James,
> > > > J.P., Deus ( the devil dog ) !, Emerald Ape, Superboy,
> > > > Dave, Kirk, Roscoe, Tobin, Canadude, Caliban, Black Cat,
> > > > Grrovy Chic, Scarlet Speedster, Spider-Man, Citezen V,
> > > > Atlas, Dan, Rocy Leech, Ned Leeds Jr., Apollo, Jeff,
> > > > Patriot, Onslaught, Big Sal, Jack Monroe, Micheal Kaiser,
> > > > ect., I would just like to say I'll miss all of you, okay ?
> > > > And since this is my last day here, could you respond to this
> > > > question within an our, please ? When is Rob Liefeld's AA or FA
> > > > due out ( AA- Agent America, FA- Fighting American ) ? And is AA
> > > > or FA going to look different than his original look ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Jamie

> > > Eh, I don't know the answer to either of these, but I'm pretty sure he'll look a bit different. The uni I saw had a star in a circle on his chest...it looked like an updated, 90's version of the 50's FA costume.

> > > -Roscoe

> > Sadly, I'm pretty sure FA still looks like AA. He looks like a bad knock off of Cap with a silver shield. That's all I'm saying. Let's all try to set an example and ignore it from here on in.
> > I hope you see this Jamie and thanks for including me since I've only been here a couple of weeks.

> > Patriot salutes you.

> Thanks for naming me as well. Goodbye, my friend. Why are you leaving, anyway?

> TJB

Thanx for including me! I know we didn't always agree, but hey! That's America! It's those basic rights that Cap embodies! I hope while you were here I gave you some food for thought. Treat yourself to some back issues, and good luck my friend!

Host = pm13-18.magicnet.net (206.104.204.147)

Posted by Falcon on July 01, 1997 at 07:04:19 PDT
in reply to Re: Good bye and a question ... (1022), posted by TLesch on July 01, 1997 at 06:14:33 PDT

> > >
> > > > > Dear Readers,

> > > > > Today is going to be my last day on the message boards .
> > > > > I decided to post this message here, because this is where
> > > > > I started it all . Alvaro, Hal/Wally in 2000, Plaid Skull,
> > > > > Albert B. Ching, Peter Eng, Zero, Guardian, TJ Burns,
> > > > > Rob, Falcon, Captain America, David Meddininus,
> > > > > Tlesch, Grand Kaiser, Batroc, BubbaBubba2, James,
> > > > > J.P., Deus ( the devil dog ) !, Emerald Ape, Superboy,
> > > > > Dave, Kirk, Roscoe, Tobin, Canadude, Caliban, Black Cat,
> > > > > Grrovy Chic, Scarlet Speedster, Spider-Man, Citezen V,
> > > > > Atlas, Dan, Rocy Leech, Ned Leeds Jr., Apollo, Jeff,
> > > > > Patriot, Onslaught, Big Sal, Jack Monroe, Micheal Kaiser,
> > > > > ect., I would just like to say I'll miss all of you, okay ?
> > > > > And since this is my last day here, could you respond to this
> > > > > question within an our, please ? When is Rob Liefeld's AA or FA
> > > > > due out ( AA- Agent America, FA- Fighting American ) ? And is AA
> > > > > or FA going to look different than his original look ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Jamie

> > > > Eh, I don't know the answer to either of these, but I'm pretty sure he'll look a bit different. The uni I saw had a star in a circle on his chest...it looked like an updated, 90's version of the 50's FA costume.

> > > > -Roscoe

> > > Sadly, I'm pretty sure FA still looks like AA. He looks like a bad knock off of Cap with a silver shield. That's all I'm saying. Let's all try to set an example and ignore it from here on in.
> > > I hope you see this Jamie and thanks for including me since I've only been here a couple of weeks.

> > > Patriot salutes you.

> > Thanks for naming me as well. Goodbye, my friend. Why are you leaving, anyway?

> > TJB

> Thanx for including me! I know we didn't always agree, but hey! That's America! It's those basic rights that Cap embodies! I hope while you were here I gave you some food for thought. Treat yourself to some back issues, and good luck my friend!

Same here! Thanks for the acknowledgement. Sorry there didn't seem to be anybody else on this board to share your appreciation of Rob Liefeld. Good Luck.

Falcon

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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 01, 1997 at 07:16:50 PDT
in reply to Re: Alvaro should start calling this board "The Rob Liefeld Board" for god's sake! (1003), posted by TLesch on June 30, 1997 at 07:25:45 PDT

> >
> > >
> > > > > > > > »
> > > > > > > > > > > >>>Y'know I was watching AMC the other night and they had on one of the old Steve Reeves Hercules movies. I had never seen it. In it he is captured and chained. He pulls the chains out of the wall and pummells all of his enemies. I was wondering where I had seen this before. Then I remembered the Liefield Cap escaping from the Red Skull and Crossbones. Did Liefield have any original ideas??
> > > > > > > > > > > I'll answer that, Yes he did green blood, Jubilee Bucky, and an Eagle on Cap's forehead. Did he have any good ideas???
> > > > > > > > > > > I know it's a moot point, I was just wondering...............BATROC
> > > > > > > > > > Uhhh...Stryfe, Cable, and Deadpool! That's about it!
> > > > > > > > > »
> > > > > > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > > > > > > "Whenever there is unjustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!" Why does that sound familiar? Oh my God! The Plaid Skull is Rob Liefeld!
> > > > > > > > >>>>You know, Dave you may be on to something. I mean his trademark is just a plaid variation of another marvel character. Plaid Skull, Plaid Goblin, Citizen Plaid. This could be the man that created Agent America and the Steel Skull. What say Plaidy, are Robbie Liefield??????Just wondering,,BATROC THE LEAPER!!!!

> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Uh....heh heh....uhhh...gulp...no comment!

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > !aciremA tnegA yub ekas s'nevaeH roF

> > > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > > > > > HEY!!! NO one deserves an accusation like that!

> > > > > > TJB

> > > > > You guys are forgetting that Plaidy has come up with many original posts, ideas, jokes, insights....with that in mind, do you think that he could be Rob Liefeld???

> > > > That could not be possible. When you look up plagarism in the dictionary, there is a drawing of Rob Liefeld..of course, it has no feet.......

> > > And don't forget, about 80 or so teeth!

> > > Falcon

> > What is the world coming to if all we can talk about is how bad Liefeld is and start making accusations about who his characteristics. Jeez.

> -Lighten up, Devil Dog. We are talking about the numerous flaws of Rob's art, and that's fair game. As artists, some of us have a lot of opinions about Liefeld's art. He did draw Cap, and this is the Cap page. Besides, your sentence isn't very coherent.

Yeah!!!! And another thing do but see that cause you know!!!!!!!

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Posted by Falcon on July 01, 1997 at 07:20:51 PDT
in reply to Re: ATTN: ALL - The Arena Board (1016), posted by Deadpool on June 30, 1997 at 23:07:52 PDT

> I agree with you Batroc ..... Cap wouldnt be on the board for the big fights but there still are other ones he can go up against :) I for one would love to see a arena board :) Ohhh ya i seen someone said something about the Batman vs Cap story and Batman won...well i hated the whole series of the DC and Marvel....the fights were small and the story behind it sucked and the match up were way out there too :) Who was the one to pick the ones to fight im not sure but they did a bad job at it :) Ohh ya Batman won by luck a sewer pipe of water some how throws water out and hit Cap and Batmat hits him with his boomerage.....well i thought this was lame....and Cap would kick his butt anyday :)

Bats so far has 3 Marvel victories under his belt: Hulk, Punisher and Cap. Why? Probably for no other reason than because he's Batman,; it's probably the same mentality that gets these big flashy, expensive, (though crappy) and popular movies made for Batman and a cheap, straight-to-video movie for Cap. His victory over the Hulk was understandable (considering the method used; I only have this info second-hand) and he's simply a better fighter than the Punisher. But Cap should have taken him. But I'm like you; I don't care for the Marvel vs. DC series. No one has to respect what happened there.

Falcon

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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 01, 1997 at 07:23:16 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey! (985), posted by Batroc on June 29, 1997 at 19:42:32 PDT

> > > > OK, the big Pete vs. Ben controversy started when Ben replaced Peter so what I'm asking is that the original Red Skull(Johan Schmidt) died of old age,yes? But he came back from a cloned body of Steve Rogers and he has all the same memories of the original Red Skull! So what I'm asking is why aren't you guys raising a ruckus that the original Red Skull was replaced by this...this....imposter!! Like the way Peter fans did? And didn't the original Red Skull's ghost appeared? Was this explained?
> > »
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > Whenever there was injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > Because the Skull's mind was placed in the clone body. Mentally, there's just the same old Skull. His ghost turned out to be a holographic image controlled by the true Skull, according to OHOTMU Update '89.
> > »
> > > TJB
> > Yeah, but Reilly had the same memories as Peter Parker too!
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>>>>So Plaidy, Back from counting votes, eh?? I was just excited that Gruenwald brought back the Skull. What were the guys at Marvel thinking when they killed him?? I know. I'm a hypocrite but I prefer Johann's brain in Cap's cloned body than Maxon or some newbie trying to assume the mantle. Was that Cap #327 with the Skull ghost. How did those marks get on Faustus' neck. I HATED that issue!!!! Batroc

I thought that it was kind of a lame way to bring him back, but there wasn't a large movement for several reasons:

1) Comic fans weren't all on-line.

2) Comic fans were not as outspoken in trying to get their opinions heard...I suspect due to #1.

3) Red Skull was known as being evil incarnate. Fans didn't see him monthly, grow to love him, or feel like they knew all of his querks and personality traits. Think about it...how many times have you read Spidey and thought "Geez, Pete wouldn't do THAT!!!". Now try the same thing for the Red Skull.

Those Are My Thoughts,

A Kooky Ned

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Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 07:57:07 PDT

>>> I was extremely disappointed in Marvel v. DC and not just because Cap got put down by Batman. Put them on a square playing field like Grim did for Thor/Superdude and Cap is the winner. BUT I'm not going into that.
The stories/matchups were too fragmented and poorly paced. I remember Steve Englehart's Avengers v. Defenders and I loved it. Even though Cap lost bad to the Submariner. (I'm sorry Rob, but I'd like for Cap to beat him just once)!!
I guess I was hoping for something along Avengers v. Defenders line or Roy Thomas' Avengers v. Squadron Sinsiter ( #70 and #71) where Cap had problems with Nighthawk?!?!
The whole Marvel v. DC was a huge disappointement for me plot wise, matchup wise, art wise, and other wise.
Sorry to be so critical, but I am still Batroc the Leaper!!

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:30:05 PDT
in reply to Marvel v. DC in RE: Deadpool (1027), posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 07:57:07 PDT

> >>> I was extremely disappointed in Marvel v. DC and not just because Cap got put down by Batman.

Well, there are enough variations on reasonable justifications to show that Batman could win, too; Cap VS knockout gas is a good example (although Batman would have to had time to prepare).

Besides, a good writer can make just about anything seem plausible.

> The stories/matchups were too fragmented and poorly paced.

I agree 100%; they tried to do to many in too short a space.

> I remember Steve Englehart's Avengers v. Defenders and I loved it. Even though Cap lost bad to the Submariner. (I'm sorry Rob, but I'd like for Cap to beat him just once)!!

Yeah, so would I.

:P

> I guess I was hoping for something along Avengers v. Defenders line or Roy Thomas' Avengers v. Squadron Sinsiter ( #70 and #71) where Cap had problems with Nighthawk?!?!

Well, since that Nighthawk (as opposed to the Defender, RIP) was supposed to be that world's analog of the Batman, I suppose I might buy it...

> Sorry to be so critical, but I am still Batroc the Leaper!!

And a man who follows the way of honair!

-DM

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:34:25 PDT
in reply to Re: Beats me ... (1000), posted by Patriot on June 30, 1997 at 06:23:35 PDT

> US Agent's last appearence was in the final issue of Force Works. They were hinting a possible romance between Spider Woman and him. Maybe they're seeing each other on the West Coast.

I'd like to see him ditch the 'Captain America'-related stuff, and become more than 'a second-rate Captain America'; the character has evolved well beyond his right-wing reactionary redneck days, and deserves a chance to grow into his own.

-DM

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Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 11:37:04 PDT
in reply to Re: Marvel v. DC (1028), posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:30:05 PDT

> > >>> I was extremely disappointed in Marvel v. DC and not just because Cap got put down by Batman.
> Well, there are enough variations on reasonable justifications to show that Batman could win, too; Cap VS knockout gas is a good example (although Batman would have to had time to prepare).
> Besides, a good writer can make just about anything seem plausible.
> > The stories/matchups were too fragmented and poorly paced.
> I agree 100%; they tried to do to many in too short a space.
> > I remember Steve Englehart's Avengers v. Defenders and I loved it. Even though Cap lost bad to the Submariner. (I'm sorry Rob, but I'd like for Cap to beat him just once)!!
> Yeah, so would I.

:P

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Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 11:37:50 PDT
in reply to Re: Marvel v. DC (1028), posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:30:05 PDT

> > >>> I was extremely disappointed in Marvel v. DC and not just because Cap got put down by Batman.
> Well, there are enough variations on reasonable justifications to show that Batman could win, too; Cap VS knockout gas is a good example (although Batman would have to had time to prepare).
> Besides, a good writer can make just about anything seem plausible.
> > The stories/matchups were too fragmented and poorly paced.
> I agree 100%; they tried to do to many in too short a space.
> > I remember Steve Englehart's Avengers v. Defenders and I loved it. Even though Cap lost bad to the Submariner. (I'm sorry Rob, but I'd like for Cap to beat him just once)!!
> Yeah, so would I.

:P

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:39:37 PDT

As most of you know, I've been running an Avengers line-up poll on the Star-Spangled Site. The current poll ends on July 5th; I am looking for suggestions for additional Captain America questions, and since I value (even when i don't agree with them) your collective opinions, I'd like y'all to help. All used suggestions will be credited (unless for some odd reason you don't WANT me to).

Thanx!

-DM

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:43:40 PDT
in reply to It is Finished.............. (864), posted by Batroc the Leaper on June 21, 1997 at 14:39:06 PDT

> What mad scheme will I go on next?? Just wait and see.......
> Until then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ze Lepair

Batroc...please send me email so that I might discuss something with you in private.

Thanx!

-DM

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Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 11:44:10 PDT
in reply to Poll Questions? (1032), posted by David Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:39:37 PDT

> As most of you know, I've been running an Avengers line-up poll on the Star-Spangled Site. The current poll ends on July 5th; I am looking for suggestions for additional Captain America questions, and since I value (even when i don't agree with them) your collective opinions, I'd like y'all to help. All used suggestions will be credited (unless for some odd reason you don't WANT me to).
> Thanx!
> -DM
This is new to me, what type of questions history? nature of his character? future plots?? a confused yet still leaping LEAPER

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:50:33 PDT
in reply to I am so ignorant!!! (1034), posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 11:44:10 PDT

> This is new to me, what type of questions history? nature of his character? future plots?? a confused yet still leaping LEAPER

Any of the above; I plan on running the polls for two weeks each, and posting the results. Example Questions are:

Who Should Cap Become Romanticly Involved With?

Should Free Spirit and Jack Flagg Be Brought Back?

Who are the top five Captain America Villains?

and so forth...

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:58:58 PDT
in reply to My Old Friend Rob (940), posted by Batroc on June 27, 1997 at 13:50:18 PDT

> That is why I am more comfortable on the Cap board harassing Medinnus. By the way, Medinnus has a pretty good sense of humor for a moderator.

Thanx...I think...

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 12:01:15 PDT
in reply to Our Long Lost Modertor, espousing Knowledge no less!! (1031), posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 11:37:50 PDT

> > > >>> I was extremely disappointed in Marvel v. DC and not just because Cap got put down by Batman.
> > Well, there are enough variations on reasonable justifications to show that Batman could win, too; Cap VS knockout gas is a good example (although Batman would have to had time to prepare).

> Good to hear from you again, when I saw you responded to me I thought I was in trouble (i.e. language, sarcasm, conduct unbecoming a Leaper). By the way, do you know the answer to my trivia question?? Rob and Roscoe are clueless and Plaidy is either MIA or not talking to me....

The question about JJJ and Cap? Don't have a clue, but I can't think of a better reason to re-read back-issues of Cap and Avengers...

And I am NOT long-lost; just overworked in my day job... :)

-DM

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 12:14:46 PDT

Hiya.

Your 'long-lost' moderator is putting on his Moderator hat for a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT a Rob Liefield board. I don't really care if you love him, hate him, admire him, or ignore him. His work on Captain America is fair game, pretty much anything else is not, although when The Fighting American (the new name for Agent America, used under license from the Kirby estate) comes out, go to town.

Leave the "Down with " stuff in grade school where it belongs. Disagree with the opinions; go elsewhere for the personal slams.

Things I judge inappropriate to the board will be summarily nuked. Nothing personal.

Now if only I could think of a valid reason for outlawing (instead of discouraging) the "I'm number ***" threads...

-DM

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Posted by DJ Ramone on July 01, 1997 at 12:35:06 PDT

Does anyone know if Diamondback and any other of the Mark Gruenwald era compatriots of cap are ever goning to appear again?

DJ

Host = BioLab8CB.Ursinus.edu (192.204.106.102)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 01, 1997 at 12:39:52 PDT
in reply to Good bye and a question ... (1011), posted by Jamie on June 30, 1997 at 20:27:20 PDT

> Dear Readers,

> Today is going to be my last day on the message boards .
> I decided to post this message here, because this is where
> I started it all . Alvaro, Hal/Wally in 2000, Plaid Skull,
> Albert B. Ching, Peter Eng, Zero, Guardian, TJ Burns,
> Rob, Falcon, Captain America, David Meddininus,
> Tlesch, Grand Kaiser, Batroc, BubbaBubba2, James,
> J.P., Deus ( the devil dog ) !, Emerald Ape, Superboy,
> Dave, Kirk, Roscoe, Tobin, Canadude, Caliban, Black Cat,
> Grrovy Chic, Scarlet Speedster, Spider-Man, Citezen V,
> Atlas, Dan, Rocy Leech, Ned Leeds Jr., Apollo, Jeff,
> Patriot, Onslaught, Big Sal, Jack Monroe, Micheal Kaiser,
> ect., I would just like to say I'll miss all of you, okay ?
> And since this is my last day here, could you respond to this
> question within an our, please ? When is Rob Liefeld's AA or FA
> due out ( AA- Agent America, FA- Fighting American ) ? And is AA
> or FA going to look different than his original look ?
>
> Thanks,

> Jamie

S'long Jamie! And remember always that Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

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Posted by Patriot on July 01, 1997 at 13:47:05 PDT
in reply to Poll Questions? (1032), posted by David Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 11:39:37 PDT

> As most of you know, I've been running an Avengers line-up poll on the Star-Spangled Site. The current poll ends on July 5th; I am looking for suggestions for additional Captain America questions, and since I value (even when i don't agree with them) your collective opinions, I'd like y'all to help. All used suggestions will be credited (unless for some odd reason you don't WANT me to).

> Thanx!

> -DM

I'd like to see apoll about bringing back Jack Monroe. I think this would qualify as a Cap Board poll.

Patriot.

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Posted by Patriot on July 01, 1997 at 13:57:11 PDT
in reply to Re: Don't thank God yet. (1020), posted by TJ Burns on July 01, 1997 at 03:56:19 PDT

> > > >
> > > > > > > Well, since Captain America isn't using the name "Agent America"
> > > > > > > anymore, I feel that I should use the name . After all, I am a major
> > > > > > > fan of AA . Oh, and feel free to use the names "Nightwing", "Flash",
> > > > > > > and " Quicksilver " . I don't want to use these names anymore, okay ?
> > > > > > > So, all of you readers, remember that these names are now available .

> > > > > > > Agent America

> > > > > > How can you be a fan of a charcter that not only has never appeared, but by the looks of it never will? They have put the AA project on the shelf for what looks to be the rest of eternity.

> > > > > > -Roscoe

> > > > > Thank God for that.

> > > > > TJB

> > > > Liefeld is still puttting out AA only he's calling it Fighting American. Simon and Kirby came up with the concept long ago. Leifeld bought the rights to the name and now Marvel has to back down from stopping him.
> > > > However, I'm not by any means encouraging anyone to buy it. I hope everyone ignores it and it becomes the worst flop in comic history.
> > > > Patriot.

> >
> > > ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Please say it ain't so!!

> > >
> > > TJB

> > It is so, but...god help me...to my mind it gives the project an air of respectability. Fighting American is a Simon and Kirby creation, he has a long and storied history (not alot ofstories, but...) and is a real honest to goodness viable character. Wheras AA was just a spiteful rip-off designed for no purpose other than petty revenge. I am sorry Simon and the estate of Kirby agreed to let Liefield use FA, but on the other hand it is noce to see FA in the published ranks again.

> > Of course, there's no way I am going to buy it.

> > -Roscoe

> Yes, but will Liefield recognize this history. After his Captain America, I'd bet not.

> TJB

I've seen the CSN article on FA. He still has similarities to AA and is sporting a round silver shield on his back. My opinion (and fear) is that FA will still be Rob's way at revenge for getting kicked off the title and I don't want to see him blemish the Red White and Blue hero ranks.

An unimpressed Patriot.

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 17:54:26 PDT
in reply to diamondback and the likes (1039), posted by DJ Ramone on July 01, 1997 at 12:35:06 PDT

> Does anyone know if Diamondback and any other of the Mark Gruenwald era compatriots of cap are ever goning to appear again?

My impression (not to be taken as anything but interpretation, neh?) from interviews with Mark Waid is that he's planning on using very little from either the Liefield days (a good thing) or from the Gruenwald era (a bad thing); on a romantic/relationship front he's bringing back the 'cynical-you-and-SHIELD-left-me-to-die-Never-trust-anyone' Sharon Carter (who he resurrected just before the Heroes Reborn bit).

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 17:56:21 PDT
in reply to Re: Poll Questions? (1041), posted by Patriot on July 01, 1997 at 13:47:05 PDT

> I'd like to see apoll about bringing back Jack Monroe. I think this would qualify as a Cap Board poll.

I agree (except to point out that the Cap board is Alvaro's, and the Star-Spangled Site is mine...the poll is a 'site' thing).

-DM

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 01, 1997 at 17:59:07 PDT
in reply to Good bye and a question ... (1011), posted by Jamie on June 30, 1997 at 20:27:20 PDT

> Dear Readers,

> Today is going to be my last day on the message boards .

G'Bye, and thanks for coming around!

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on July 01, 1997 at 19:12:09 PDT

>>>> You have until 12:00 midnight Friday to answer my Trivia question or I will give the President a toxin that will turn him into a Giant Lizard!!!
Ooops, Gruenwald already did this..... Well, Friday is the deadline for the infamous question:
,,,,,,,,,,,,When is Cap's first on camera meeting/appearance with Spider-man nemesis J. Jonah Jameson.
The Great Medinnus, Roscoe, and Rob are all on the ropes and the clock....is now......ticking..tick..tick..tick..
The answer will be revealed to your eternal shame as soon as I awaken Saturday morn.
Adieu,,,Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Jack Monroe on July 01, 1997 at 19:59:34 PDT

I got out of comics for a while but I have always liked Cap and read
about 5 issues before the Heroes Reborn Cap series. While I liked the
pre-Reborn Cap better I'd like to ask why are most down on the Liefeld
Cap? It wasn't great but I didn't think it was awful. Please excuse my
ignorance and help me see the truth. Looking forward to Caps return to
the Marvel Universe.

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Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 20:40:30 PDT
in reply to Question from a new guy (1047), posted by Jack Monroe on July 01, 1997 at 19:59:34 PDT

> I got out of comics for a while but I have always liked Cap and read
> about 5 issues before the Heroes Reborn Cap series. While I liked the
> pre-Reborn Cap better I'd like to ask why are most down on the Liefeld
> Cap? It wasn't great but I didn't think it was awful. Please excuse my
> ignorance and help me see the truth. Looking forward to Caps return to
> the Marvel Universe.
>>> Our fearless moderator has a fine line on what is in good taste concerning Mr. Liefield. I had not been exposed to Liefield until he took over Cap and I had heard good and bad about him.
I have seen worse art (Frank Robbins and Gene Colan's Cap comes to mind--Gene was great on Daredevil but had trouble giving Cap the right look)
The stories bothered me. Cap had green blood and if you drank it like the Falcon did you might recover from a mortal wound and feel like a super soldier.
Cap was put in suspended animation, apparently by SHIELD for disagreeing with Truman's decision to drop the A-Bomb on Japan, BUT Shield brought him out during Korea and 'Nam for special assignments.
But the Liefield Cap kept flipping out and had to go back on ice. Liefield also modified the costume, taking the "A" off Cap's mask and putting a SHIELD eagle on the mask instead. I guess it was too much for an old Cap fan like me to take.
In interviews, Rob seemed a bit arrogant to me by saying he was keeping the Eagle on Cap's mask no matter how many people complained. I think Rob was trying to push the envelope and it backfired a little. It also hurt him that Mark Waid really had a good thing going with Cap and then the suits at Marvel decided to replace Waid with Rob Liefield.
In Chronological Order
1.) Liefield replaces a popular Cap writer Mark Waid (angering many)
2.) Liefield modifies the costume (angering many more)
3.) Rob disregards fan reaction (angering more)
4.) Rob modifies the Cap mythos and history (angering more)
I'm rambling again, but you get my point..............Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 20:50:47 PDT

>>> I think we may have all been too hard on Liefield (Did I say that)??
Here is what I think that he was thinking with Cap.
########## Here is Cap barely breaking the top 100 in sales. Some people had thought Gruenwald might have gone a little stale after so many years on the title.
So, Rob thinks I'll totally revamp the character and nobody will care because sales have been down for a while.
Kind of like, Frank Miller taking over Daredevil, that had dwindled down to a bi-monthly publication, and totally revamped the character, most of the supporting cast, and the entire feel of the comic from a campy hero to a dark personna of the night.
For Miller it worked. But Rob is no Frank Miller. Both are arrogant in my opinion, but Miller has some laurels upon which to rest.
>>> I think Rob mijudged the old Cap fans who threw fits. This time the good guys won. We get Waid and Garney back.
BUT, we must keep our constant vigil that the creative teams on Cap be creative yet true to the Character and mythos of the Captain. For that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Roscoe on July 01, 1997 at 23:04:13 PDT
in reply to Trivia Time Bomb!!!! (1046), posted by Batroc the Leaper on July 01, 1997 at 19:12:09 PDT

> >>>> You have until 12:00 midnight Friday to answer my Trivia question or I will give the President a toxin that will turn him into a Giant Lizard!!!
> Ooops, Gruenwald already did this..... Well, Friday is the deadline for the infamous question:
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,When is Cap's first on camera meeting/appearance with Spider-man nemesis J. Jonah Jameson.
> The Great Medinnus, Roscoe, and Rob are all on the ropes and the clock....is now......ticking..tick..tick..tick..
> The answer will be revealed to your eternal shame as soon as I awaken Saturday morn.
> Adieu,,,Batroc the Leaper

Alright. I have checked all of the obvious issues that sprang to mind, and haven't been able to dope this one out.Obviously it either wasn't a scene that stuck in my mind when I read it or it took place in a comic I haven't read (which is theoretically possible, though very unlikely with Cap).

Rob, Dave, anyone else...we need to pool our thoughts on this. I dont have the time to go through 400 issues of Cap and 400 issues of Avengers, so...any ideas?

I tried the obvious Spider-Man and Spidey villain appearances (ToS #58, Cap #123, #137-138, etc.) and didn't come up with much, though I might have overlooked something. I thought maybe it was in an issue where Cap holds a press conference of something, but JJJ wasn't in Avengers #16 and I don't recall him being at Avengers Appreciation Day in Avengers #45.

If you have any thoughts, post them. The Madbombs will destroy us otherwise.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:02:34 PDT
in reply to Circle the Wagons (1050), posted by Roscoe on July 01, 1997 at 23:04:13 PDT

Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!

Rob

Host = 207.142.98.75 (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:16:30 PDT
in reply to Mid Night Ramblings (1049), posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 20:50:47 PDT

> So, Rob thinks I'll totally revamp the character and nobody will care because sales have been down for a while.
> Kind of like, Frank Miller taking over Daredevil, that had dwindled down to a bi-monthly publication, and totally revamped the character, most of the supporting cast, and the entire feel of the comic from a campy hero to a dark personna of the night.
> For Miller it worked. But Rob is no Frank Miller. Both are arrogant in my opinion, but Miller has some laurels upon which to rest.

But wasn't some of that change in DD begun before Miller? Check out some of those Roger McKenzie-written/Gil Kane-penciled/Klaus Janson-inked issues just prior to Miller taking over...they had a similar focus on the urban landscape, playing down the campy super-villain stuff.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:34:49 PDT
in reply to Re: Question from a new guy (1048), posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 20:40:30 PDT

> I had not been exposed to Liefield until he took over Cap and I had heard good and bad about him.
> I have seen worse art (Frank Robbins and Gene Colan's Cap comes to mind--Gene was great on Daredevil but had trouble giving Cap the right look)

You think Colan's Cap has worse art than Liefeld's Cap? I've not read Liefeld, but I can praise Colan. The Colan era is one of my favorites in Cap's history, an underrated period touching on topical matters like campus protests for which Gene's cinematic style was uniquely suited. It was also the era in which The Falcon was introduced; not many eras, before or since, contributed such an important addition to the Cap legend.

The quality of Colan's Cap art often depended on the inker. I seem to recall that the Dick Ayers-inked issues had the worst art and the Joe Sinnott-inked issues were the best. Such noted artists as Wally Wood, Bill Everett, and Tom Palmer inked Gene's Cap pencils. Check out that issue where Cap fought the Scorpion (#122 I think?). Stan Lee thought so highly of the art in that issue, he reprinted it in his "Sentinel of Liberty" volume in the late 1970s, showcasing Cap's greatest tales.

I admit to not caring much for the two issues of Cap that Gene drew in the early 1980s, however. I've often wondered how an artist with an approach similar to Gene's, such as Jerry Ordway, would fare on Cap. Personally I think that approach is just the sort needed today.

Rob

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Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 05:36:02 PDT
in reply to Re: Mid Night Ramblings (1052), posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:16:30 PDT

»
> > So, Rob thinks I'll totally revamp the character and nobody will care because sales have been down for a while.
> > Kind of like, Frank Miller taking over Daredevil, that had dwindled down to a bi-monthly publication, and totally revamped the character, most of the supporting cast, and the entire feel of the comic from a campy hero to a dark personna of the night.
> > For Miller it worked. But Rob is no Frank Miller. Both are arrogant in my opinion, but Miller has some laurels upon which to rest.
> But wasn't some of that change in DD begun before Miller? Check out some of those Roger McKenzie-written/Gil Kane-penciled/Klaus Janson-inked issues just prior to Miller taking over...they had a similar focus on the urban landscape, playing down the campy super-villain stuff.
> Rob
>>>> Of course you are somewhat correct, however you did not give any credit to the often maligned Jim Shooter who wrote a few issues #146 comes to mind.
I think Marvel let Miller run wild with DD. Probably McKenzie and Shooter also. Give Miller some credit for re-empahsizing Kingpin, Bullseye, and Ben Urich while creating Stick, Electra, Turk, the new Gladiator, etc.
My point was Rob was taking similar liberties with Cap. But Daredevil is not Cap. Miller, McKenzie, or Shooter did not radically change DD's history either. Keep in mind no Marvel character has a history as prestegious as Cap.
The loyal Cap fans couldn't take what Rob was doing. His Heroes reborn left me more and more irritated the more I read.
Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Falcon on July 02, 1997 at 06:11:51 PDT
in reply to Gene Colan's Cap (1053), posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:34:49 PDT

> I admit to not caring much for the two issues of Cap that Gene drew in the early 1980s, however. I've often wondered how an artist with an approach similar to Gene's, such as Jerry Ordway, would fare on Cap. Personally I think that approach is just the sort needed today.

> Rob

I agree. Jerry Ordway would be ideal or close to ideal for Cap.

Falcon

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Posted by TJ Burns on July 02, 1997 at 07:45:59 PDT
in reply to Here's my guess (1051), posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:02:34 PDT

>
> Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!

> Rob

JJJ was at an Avengers press conferance when the team added Sandman and Rage. I can't remember the issue, though.

TJB

Host = peopl21.mis.NET (206.28.33.121)

Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 07:52:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Mid Night Ramblings (1054), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 05:36:02 PDT

> »
> > > So, Rob thinks I'll totally revamp the character and nobody will care because sales have been down for a while.
> > > Kind of like, Frank Miller taking over Daredevil, that had dwindled down to a bi-monthly publication, and totally revamped the character, most of the supporting cast, and the entire feel of the comic from a campy hero to a dark personna of the night.
> > > For Miller it worked. But Rob is no Frank Miller. Both are arrogant in my opinion, but Miller has some laurels upon which to rest.
> > But wasn't some of that change in DD begun before Miller? Check out some of those Roger McKenzie-written/Gil Kane-penciled/Klaus Janson-inked issues just prior to Miller taking over...they had a similar focus on the urban landscape, playing down the campy super-villain stuff.
> > Rob
> >>>> Of course you are somewhat correct, however you did not give any credit to the often maligned Jim Shooter who wrote a few issues #146 comes to mind.
> I think Marvel let Miller run wild with DD. Probably McKenzie and Shooter also. Give Miller some credit for re-empahsizing Kingpin, Bullseye, and Ben Urich while creating Stick, Electra, Turk, the new Gladiator, etc.
> My point was Rob was taking similar liberties with Cap. But Daredevil is not Cap. Miller, McKenzie, or Shooter did not radically change DD's history either. Keep in mind no Marvel character has a history as prestegious as Cap.
> The loyal Cap fans couldn't take what Rob was doing. His Heroes reborn left me more and more irritated the more I read.
> Batroc
>>>>> and another thing are you downgrading the importance of Frank Miller to comics, especially 80's comics??
His Daredevil, and the Wolverine mini-series were instant classics. Before Medinnus gets on here and says this has nothing to do with Cap. I urge you to read Miller's Captain America in Marvel Fanfare? I want to say issue #18. It is a real patriotic tear jerker perfect for corn balls like me and very appropriate for the 4th of July.
AND Rob, I really don't think anyone really cared if DD was revamped. Before this experimental stage with Shooter, McKenzie, and Miller, Daredevel always seemed a campier, more law and order type, Spidey wannabe.
Cap needs no major overhaul.
One last question, where do you live Indochina?? You post like early a.m. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 07:58:07 PDT
in reply to Gene Colan's Cap (1053), posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:34:49 PDT

> > I had not been exposed to Liefield until he took over Cap and I had heard good and bad about him.
> > I have seen worse art (Frank Robbins and Gene Colan's Cap comes to mind--Gene was great on Daredevil but had trouble giving Cap the right look)
> You think Colan's Cap has worse art than Liefeld's Cap? I've not read Liefeld, but I can praise Colan. The Colan era is one of my favorites in Cap's history, an underrated period touching on topical matters like campus protests for which Gene's cinematic style was uniquely suited. It was also the era in which The Falcon was introduced; not many eras, before or since, contributed such an important addition to the Cap legend.
> The quality of Colan's Cap art often depended on the inker. I seem to recall that the Dick Ayers-inked issues had the worst art and the Joe Sinnott-inked issues were the best. Such noted artists as Wally Wood, Bill Everett, and Tom Palmer inked Gene's Cap pencils. Check out that issue where Cap fought the Scorpion (#122 I think?). Stan Lee thought so highly of the art in that issue, he reprinted it in his "Sentinel of Liberty" volume in the late 1970s, showcasing Cap's greatest tales.
> I admit to not caring much for the two issues of Cap that Gene drew in the early 1980s, however. I've often wondered how an artist with an approach similar to Gene's, such as Jerry Ordway, would fare on Cap. Personally I think that approach is just the sort needed today.
> Rob
>>>> I did not like Gene Colan's Cap. How many stripes were on that uniform,,,76?? and the stripes went up to his armpits!!!
The wings on his mask looked like he could fly ala Namor's winged feet.
I also didn't think he gave Cap that super soldier - world class acrobat look.
NOW, I did like Colan's Daredevil. I'm not saying Colan is a bad artist. Look at Ron Lim, I liked his work on Cap, but I thought he did a poor job with Iron Man this month.
It's just my opinion, don't get too upset, for that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 08:02:06 PDT
in reply to Here's my guess (1051), posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:02:34 PDT

»
> Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!
> Rob
>>>> WRONG!!! You have been all around it in our ramblings over the past few days.
You still have a little more time, before I turn Clinton into a giant Serpent (What? He already is one???)
Hey, someones at the door, It's the FBI..... I gotta go. Ze Lepair

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 08:26:12 PDT
in reply to Re: Here's my guess (1056), posted by TJ Burns on July 02, 1997 at 07:45:59 PDT

> »
> > Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!
> > Rob
> JJJ was at an Avengers press conferance when the team added Sandman and Rage. I can't remember the issue, though.
»
> TJB
>>Not a bad guess and well researched, I don't know what your Cap inventory is but I think Roscoe, Rob, and Dave M. have a stacked deck.
They have huge (if not complete) Cap collections. If you do find the answer before the Big Three, I will ascend to the Panthenon of the Cap gods. So let it be written, so let it be done....Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 08:29:55 PDT
in reply to Re: Here's my guess (1056), posted by TJ Burns on July 02, 1997 at 07:45:59 PDT

> »
> > Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!
> > Rob
> JJJ was at an Avengers press conferance when the team added Sandman and Rage. I can't remember the issue, though.
»
> TJB
>> Let me clarify my earlier statement, you answer it before the Big Three
and you become a god, immortality, dates with the Enchantress, killing Frost Giants, mead drinking in the hall, the whole nine yards.
So let it be written, so let it be done....Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Patriot on July 02, 1997 at 08:45:17 PDT
in reply to Re: Gene Colan's Cap (1058), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 07:58:07 PDT

> > > I had not been exposed to Liefield until he took over Cap and I had heard good and bad about him.
> > > I have seen worse art (Frank Robbins and Gene Colan's Cap comes to mind--Gene was great on Daredevil but had trouble giving Cap the right look)
> > You think Colan's Cap has worse art than Liefeld's Cap? I've not read Liefeld, but I can praise Colan. The Colan era is one of my favorites in Cap's history, an underrated period touching on topical matters like campus protests for which Gene's cinematic style was uniquely suited. It was also the era in which The Falcon was introduced; not many eras, before or since, contributed such an important addition to the Cap legend.
> > The quality of Colan's Cap art often depended on the inker. I seem to recall that the Dick Ayers-inked issues had the worst art and the Joe Sinnott-inked issues were the best. Such noted artists as Wally Wood, Bill Everett, and Tom Palmer inked Gene's Cap pencils. Check out that issue where Cap fought the Scorpion (#122 I think?). Stan Lee thought so highly of the art in that issue, he reprinted it in his "Sentinel of Liberty" volume in the late 1970s, showcasing Cap's greatest tales.
> > I admit to not caring much for the two issues of Cap that Gene drew in the early 1980s, however. I've often wondered how an artist with an approach similar to Gene's, such as Jerry Ordway, would fare on Cap. Personally I think that approach is just the sort needed today.
> > Rob
> >>>> I did not like Gene Colan's Cap. How many stripes were on that uniform,,,76?? and the stripes went up to his armpits!!!
> The wings on his mask looked like he could fly ala Namor's winged feet.
> I also didn't think he gave Cap that super soldier - world class acrobat look.
> NOW, I did like Colan's Daredevil. I'm not saying Colan is a bad artist. Look at Ron Lim, I liked his work on Cap, but I thought he did a poor job with Iron Man this month.
> It's just my opinion, don't get too upset, for that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper.
I think that is a valid point. Too many people want to condemn artists for their work on certain projects. I didn't like Colan's Cap either but I did like his Silverblade and his work on Daredevil works as well. I always liked Byrne's Cap and I was really enjoying Garney's Cap as well even though other's on this board didn't. I think that companies should take a better look at what artist should go with what project. That way, their talent isn't wasted and they are not the subject of undo criticism.
There is always going to be various opinions on artists according to our personal visual taste.

Patriot. Exercising the First Amendment and whatever Canada has.
Patriot

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Posted by W.D. Barlowe on July 02, 1997 at 09:51:03 PDT

Yes! The sweetheart my wife is gave me a sporty Captain America tie for our anniversary! She humors me so!! Too Sweeet!

Host = 199.222.162.39 (199.222.162.39)

Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 10:25:40 PDT
in reply to I finally got it! My very own Captain America Tie!!! (1063), posted by W.D. Barlowe on July 02, 1997 at 09:51:03 PDT

> Yes! The sweetheart my wife is gave me a sporty Captain America tie for our anniversary! She humors me so!! Too Sweeet!
Hey, just in time for the 4th of July. Is it Ron Lim art from his run on Cap. I think Cap is beating up the Watchdogs. I saw a tie like that once. The Leaper

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Posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 10:58:07 PDT
in reply to Are you dissin' Frank Miller?? continued ramblings (1057), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 07:52:00 PDT

> > > > Kind of like, Frank Miller taking over Daredevil, that had dwindled down to a bi-monthly publication, and totally revamped the character, most of the supporting cast, and the entire feel of the comic from a campy hero to a dark personna of the night.
> > > > For Miller it worked. But Rob is no Frank Miller. Both are arrogant in my opinion, but Miller has some laurels upon which to rest.
> > > But wasn't some of that change in DD begun before Miller? Check out some of those Roger McKenzie-written/Gil Kane-penciled/Klaus Janson-inked issues just prior to Miller taking over...they had a similar focus on the urban landscape, playing down the campy super-villain stuff.
> > > Rob
> > >>>> Of course you are somewhat correct, however you did not give any credit to the often maligned Jim Shooter who wrote a few issues #146 comes to mind.
> > I think Marvel let Miller run wild with DD. Probably McKenzie and Shooter also. Give Miller some credit for re-empahsizing Kingpin, Bullseye, and Ben Urich while creating Stick, Electra, Turk, the new Gladiator, etc.

I agree that Marvel gave Miller a lot of freedom to change DD. I suppose if Miller had been like today's creators, he would have insisted on starting over from #1 and wiping the previous fifteen years (or so) of DD's history. But I think Miller kept going in the non-campy direction that McKenzie had been going with the title. If memory serves, McKenzie brought in Ben Urich (when he discovered DD's identity in that issue where DD fought the Hulk) and both Jim Shooter and McKenzie used Bullseye (#146 for Shooter, #159-160? for McKenzie). Thanks for reminding me about Shooter, I'd forgotten that he had gotten that more realistic DD style going following Marv Wolfman's more typically superheroic DD. You had made it sound like Miller had radically changed the entire direction of the book (from campy to realism), while I contend that DD was going in that direction before Miller. I wasn't trying to minimize Miller's major contribution to 1980s comics or his enormous effect on DD in particular, but point out the oft-forgotten efforts of guys like McKenzie and Kane (and Shooter, whom I'd forgotten myself) who had been heading in that direction.

»Before Medinnus gets on here and says this has nothing to do with Cap. I urge you to read Miller's Captain America in Marvel Fanfare? I want to say issue #18. It is a real patriotic tear jerker perfect for corn balls like me and very appropriate for the 4th of July.

Yes, I liked that issue a lot (written by Roger Stern, probably my favorite Cap writer). In fact, I looked thru it last nite to see if JJJ was in it!

> AND Rob, I really don't think anyone really cared if DD was revamped. Before this experimental stage with Shooter, McKenzie, and Miller, Daredevel always seemed a campier, more law and order type, Spidey wannabe.
> Cap needs no major overhaul.

> One last question, where do you live Indochina?? You post like early a.m. Batroc the Leaper

Believe it or not, I was up until 5:30 am last nite looking for issues that had Cap & JJJ together....!!

Rob

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Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 12:19:00 PDT
in reply to Gene Colan's Cap (1053), posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 02:34:49 PDT

> > I had not been exposed to Liefield until he took over Cap and I had heard good and bad about him.
> > I have seen worse art (Frank Robbins and Gene Colan's Cap comes to mind--Gene was great on Daredevil but had trouble giving Cap the right look)
> You think Colan's Cap has worse art than Liefeld's Cap? I've not read Liefeld, but I can praise Colan. The Colan era is one of my favorites in Cap's history, an underrated period touching on topical matters like campus protests for which Gene's cinematic style was uniquely suited. It was also the era in which The Falcon was introduced; not many eras, before or since, contributed such an important addition to the Cap legend.
> The quality of Colan's Cap art often depended on the inker. I seem to recall that the Dick Ayers-inked issues had the worst art and the Joe Sinnott-inked issues were the best. Such noted artists as Wally Wood, Bill Everett, and Tom Palmer inked Gene's Cap pencils. Check out that issue where Cap fought the Scorpion (#122 I think?). Stan Lee thought so highly of the art in that issue, he reprinted it in his "Sentinel of Liberty" volume in the late 1970s, showcasing Cap's greatest tales.
> I admit to not caring much for the two issues of Cap that Gene drew in the early 1980s, however. I've often wondered how an artist with an approach similar to Gene's, such as Jerry Ordway, would fare on Cap. Personally I think that approach is just the sort needed today.
> Rob
>>>> Joe Sinnott inked ish #122. Sinnott is one of the great inkers of FF fame (well over 100 issues if I remember correctly)
I can't draw stick men, but if he inked my work, you would be saying, "That Batroc is a good artist and he can leap too"!
Question for Rob. The Cap artists around this time were
1.) Jack Kirby
2.) Jim Steranko
3.) Gene Colan
4.) John Romita
5.) Sal Buscema
Where does "Gentlemen" Gene rank with these five?? Choose wisely before you post. BATROC

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 02, 1997 at 13:22:47 PDT
in reply to Re: I finally got it! My very own Captain America Tie!!! (1064), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 10:25:40 PDT

I have two Cap ties; one with Spiderman, and one with Cap buried in adaptoid-like androids.

They go ver well at business meetings... :)

-DM

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Posted by Nate Grey on July 02, 1997 at 14:01:43 PDT

So is this the real Nick Fury or not? Did this happen before in the real Marvel universe? The ending had me all freaked out but I knew something was up by the way those Shield armors things looked like the SOn of Seperents costumes. So what do you think will happen next?

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Posted by W.D. Barlowe on July 02, 1997 at 14:27:24 PDT
in reply to Re: I finally got it! My very own Captain America Tie!!! (1064), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 10:25:40 PDT

> > Yes! The sweetheart my wife is gave me a sporty Captain America tie for our anniversary! She humors me so!! Too Sweeet!
> Hey, just in time for the 4th of July. Is it Ron Lim art from his run on Cap. I think Cap is beating up the Watchdogs. I saw a tie like that once. The Leaper

Actually I haven't been able to pin down the artist! The signature on the tie is of "Johnson", but for the life of me I can't think of any Johnsons. It has a predominantly black background with Cap being surrounded by a bunch of green-colored attack robots. We found it at a comicbook store in Asheville, NC.
W.D.

Host = 199.222.162.39 (199.222.162.39)

Posted by W. D. Barlowe on July 02, 1997 at 14:30:20 PDT
in reply to Re: I finally got it! My very own Captain America Tie!!! (1067), posted by David Medinnus on July 02, 1997 at 13:22:47 PDT

> I have two Cap ties; one with Spiderman, and one with Cap buried in adaptoid-like androids.

> They go ver well at business meetings... :)

> -DM

Hey! The second one you mentioned sounds like the one I have! Are the androids green? Is the art signed by an artist named "Johnson"? If so, do you know who is the "Johnson" artist is?
W.D.

P.S. Yes! On it's first day out it has drawn a bit of attention from co-workers!! =)

Host = 199.222.162.39 (199.222.162.39)

Posted by Patriot on July 02, 1997 at 16:29:40 PDT
in reply to Capt American 10 What the hell????(spoilers) (1068), posted by Nate Grey on July 02, 1997 at 14:01:43 PDT

> So is this the real Nick Fury or not? Did this happen before in the real Marvel universe? The ending had me all freaked out but I knew something was up by the way those Shield armors things looked like the SOn of Seperents costumes. So what do you think will happen next?

I think they're taking advantage of the fact that HR is coming to a close and they can do whatever they want.

Patriot.

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Posted by Avenger on July 02, 1997 at 17:30:48 PDT
in reply to Re: Capt American 10 What the hell????(spoilers) (1071), posted by Patriot on July 02, 1997 at 16:29:40 PDT

>
> > So is this the real Nick Fury or not? Did this happen before in the real Marvel universe? The ending had me all freaked out but I knew something was up by the way those Shield armors things looked like the SOn of Seperents costumes. So what do you think will happen next?

> I think they're taking advantage of the fact that HR is coming to a close and they can do whatever they want.

> Patriot.

I hope it is an LMD that turns out to actually be Jake Fury (I think that was his name) Nick's dead brother who was also the villain Scorpio.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Jack Monroe on July 02, 1997 at 18:42:47 PDT
in reply to Re: Question from a new guy (1048), posted by Batroc on July 01, 1997 at 20:40:30 PDT

Thank you Batroc for the info. I thought the green blood was a little
much and Cap's attitude in the HR universe was a bit grim compared to
his Marvel days.

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Posted by Roscoe on July 02, 1997 at 20:09:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Capt American 10 What the hell????(spoilers) (1072), posted by Avenger on July 02, 1997 at 17:30:48 PDT

> >
> > > So is this the real Nick Fury or not? Did this happen before in the real Marvel universe? The ending had me all freaked out but I knew something was up by the way those Shield armors things looked like the SOn of Seperents costumes. So what do you think will happen next?

> > I think they're taking advantage of the fact that HR is coming to a close and they can do whatever they want.

> > Patriot.

> I hope it is an LMD that turns out to actually be Jake Fury (I think that was his name) Nick's dead brother who was also the villain Scorpio.

> -Roscoe

Dang it, I got my code names confused. Crud.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Roscoe on July 02, 1997 at 20:12:21 PDT
in reply to Wrong Again!!!! (1059), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 08:02:06 PDT

> »
> > Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!
> > Rob
> >>>> WRONG!!! You have been all around it in our ramblings over the past few days.
> You still have a little more time, before I turn Clinton into a giant Serpent (What? He already is one???)
> Hey, someones at the door, It's the FBI..... I gotta go. Ze Lepair

Marvel Team Up #106

-Roscoe

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 02, 1997 at 21:02:39 PDT

Can someone tell me what's the current roster for the Serpent Society? I haven't read a Serpent story since Side-Winder and Death Adder were still on the team! If there are any new members can you tell me what their abilities are?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = 204.32.156.76 (204.32.156.76)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 02, 1997 at 21:04:39 PDT

Can someone tell me what's the current roster of the Serpent Society? I haven't read a Serpent story since Death Adder and Side-Winder were still on the team! If there are any new members can you tell me what their abilities are?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-12.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.76)

Posted by Roscoe on July 02, 1997 at 21:05:03 PDT
in reply to Hey! (1076), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 02, 1997 at 21:02:39 PDT

> Can someone tell me what's the current roster for the Serpent Society? I haven't read a Serpent story since Side-Winder and Death Adder were still on the team! If there are any new members can you tell me what their abilities are?

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Current roster? I can't recall these guys appearing as a group since the great story in #380-382, when half the group was thrown in prison. So, as far s I know, they don't have a current roster.

Sidewinder appeared in a very good issue (#424 I think) but I don't recall any other members being present except Diamondback.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 22:04:05 PDT
in reply to Trivia (1075), posted by Roscoe on July 02, 1997 at 20:12:21 PDT

> > »
> > > Yes, I also checked some of the obvious choices including Marvel Team-Up and Amazing Spider-Man. I know that Jonah & Cap appeared together in Jonah's office in Cap #402. That was in 1992. I can't find anything earlier of the two characters together except for a dream sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #246 (from 1983), page 19, panel two, where Jonah is on the same stage with Cap, The Avengers, Spidey, & the FF. Without devoting all my waking moments to the matter, that's as much as I can find!
> > > Rob
> > >>>> WRONG!!! You have been all around it in our ramblings over the past few days.
> > You still have a little more time, before I turn Clinton into a giant Serpent (What? He already is one???)
> > Hey, someones at the door, It's the FBI..... I gotta go. Ze Lepair
> Marvel Team Up #106
> -Roscoe
NO!!! Delve deeper, time is of the essence! Batroc

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 02, 1997 at 22:19:28 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey! (1078), posted by Roscoe on July 02, 1997 at 21:05:03 PDT

> > Can someone tell me what's the current roster for the Serpent Society? I haven't read a Serpent story since Side-Winder and Death Adder were still on the team! If there are any new members can you tell me what their abilities are?

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> Current roster? I can't recall these guys appearing as a group since the great story in #380-382, when half the group was thrown in prison. So, as far s I know, they don't have a current roster.

> Sidewinder appeared in a very good issue (#424 I think) but I don't recall any other members being present except Diamondback.

> -Roscoe

Wow! I thought this message was a goner!! And all of the sudden it resurfaced! Thanks for the info!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-12.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.76)

Posted by Rob on July 02, 1997 at 23:11:11 PDT
in reply to Joe Sinnott and Gene Colan (1066), posted by Batroc on July 02, 1997 at 12:19:00 PDT

> Question for Rob. The Cap artists around this time were
> 1.) Jack Kirby
> 2.) Jim Steranko
> 3.) Gene Colan
> 4.) John Romita
> 5.) Sal Buscema
> Where does "Gentlemen" Gene rank with these five?? Choose wisely before you post. BATROC

Well, clearly I rank Colan higher than Rob Liefeld, unlike you. Hey, if you consider Liefeld's Cap better than Colan's Cap, that's your business! As for the five artists, I enjoyed all of them, and don't choose to nitpick about which I like more than another. Besides, when Gene was doing the comic, Kirby was leaving Marvel anyway & Steranko was doing fewer & fewer comics, so it wouldn't be a case of Steranko or Kirby being prevented from drawing Cap because Colan was taking over or something. Colan was the right man at the right time. If you are implying that Colan was the worst of the lot, I'd have to disagree. As much as I loved Romita's Cap work, I thought Colan's Spidey Vs. Falcon issue artwork was fascinating and realistic. Sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy those issues.

Rob

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Posted by Patriot on July 03, 1997 at 06:30:36 PDT
in reply to Re: Capt American 10 What the hell????(spoilers) (1074), posted by Roscoe on July 02, 1997 at 20:09:41 PDT

> Dang it, I got my code names confused. Crud.

> -Roscoe

Try only using one name.
A true Patriot needs no other false identities.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 03, 1997 at 06:31:09 PDT

I'm #6000!!!!!!!! In yo face Plaid Man!!!!
um.....sorry for that nasty build up.........uhhhh...I heard that the Red Skull used to cross dress and party with J. Edgar Hoover....does that count as the biggest secret????

A Sneaky Ned

Host = 155.42.31.220 (155.42.31.220)

Posted by Batroc on July 03, 1997 at 07:39:09 PDT
in reply to Biggest Cap Secret..... (1083), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 03, 1997 at 06:31:09 PDT

> I'm #6000!!!!!!!! In yo face Plaid Man!!!!
> um.....sorry for that nasty build up.........uhhhh...I heard that the Red Skull used to cross dress and party with J. Edgar Hoover....does that count as the biggest secret????
»
> A Sneaky Ned
.....Ned, you have no shame. The Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 03, 1997 at 08:20:22 PDT

>>Discussing various artists renditions of the Captain, I would like to ask: How many stripes are on his uniform? A fan in the letter's page said 13. Is that correct? It sounds right or at least politically correct.
You know according to Jack Kirby's "Captain America's Bicentennial Battles", Betsy Ross saw a time traveling Cap and of course his colorful costume was inspiration for Old Glory.
A patriotic Batroc....Viva le France.

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Posted by Roscoe on July 03, 1997 at 11:58:05 PDT
in reply to Code Names (1082), posted by Patriot on July 03, 1997 at 06:30:36 PDT

> > Dang it, I got my code names confused. Crud.

> > -Roscoe

> Try only using one name.
> A true Patriot needs no other false identities.
>

I don't want just one. I enjoy changing my name to suit the board I am posting on. SOmtimes I get confues between the Avengers and Cap boards, however, because of the overlap in topics.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 03, 1997 at 21:02:01 PDT
in reply to Biggest Cap Secret..... (1083), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 03, 1997 at 06:31:09 PDT

> I'm #6000!!!!!!!! In yo face Plaid Man!!!!
> um.....sorry for that nasty build up.........uhhhh...I heard that the Red Skull used to cross dress and party with J. Edgar Hoover....does that count as the biggest secret????

Cap's biggest secret is probably that he dressed in drag in Captain America #2, 1941...("Trapped In The Nazi Stronghold").

Corset and everything. Yeeeesh!

-DM

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Posted by Batroc on July 03, 1997 at 22:44:28 PDT
in reply to Re: Biggest Cap Secret..... (1087), posted by Dave Medinnus on July 03, 1997 at 21:02:01 PDT

> > I'm #6000!!!!!!!! In yo face Plaid Man!!!!
> > um.....sorry for that nasty build up.........uhhhh...I heard that the Red Skull used to cross dress and party with J. Edgar Hoover....does that count as the biggest secret????
> Cap's biggest secret is probably that he dressed in drag in Captain America #2, 1941...("Trapped In The Nazi Stronghold").
> Corset and everything. Yeeeesh!
> -DM
He must like it, he did it again in Superia Strategem or whatever that was called. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 11:02:15 PDT

Happy July 4th everyone...!

I will get home a little before midnite eastern-time tonite and will check this board, to anxiously await Batroc's unveiling of the Jonah-Cap trivia answer at the witching hour! Batroc has proved he is the Trivia King. (Unless the answer turns out to be an old issue of Not Brand Echh or something....)

Rob

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Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 12:54:52 PDT
in reply to Happy 4th...Waiting for the Madbomb Trivia Question.... (1089), posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 11:02:15 PDT

> Happy July 4th everyone...!
> I will get home a little before midnite eastern-time tonite and will check this board, to anxiously await Batroc's unveiling of the Jonah-Cap trivia answer at the witching hour! Batroc has proved he is the Trivia King. (Unless the answer turns out to be an old issue of Not Brand Echh or something....)
> Rob
>>>>There is still time for you to save the Oval Office Rob. You have been sooooooo close in your posts this week that you will never forgive yourself. Until then it is a marathon of fear until the witching hour. Baahahahahahhahahaha.....The Mad Leaper

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Posted by Roscoe on July 04, 1997 at 15:40:40 PDT
in reply to Re: Happy 4th...Waiting for the Madbomb Trivia Question.... (1090), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 12:54:52 PDT

> > Happy July 4th everyone...!
> > I will get home a little before midnite eastern-time tonite and will check this board, to anxiously await Batroc's unveiling of the Jonah-Cap trivia answer at the witching hour! Batroc has proved he is the Trivia King. (Unless the answer turns out to be an old issue of Not Brand Echh or something....)
> > Rob
> >>>>There is still time for you to save the Oval Office Rob. You have been sooooooo close in your posts this week that you will never forgive yourself. Until then it is a marathon of fear until the witching hour. Baahahahahahhahahaha.....The Mad Leaper

Who has been close with their posts? I seem to recall you said somewhere you were going to give us a hint, but I don't recall seeing it.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 04, 1997 at 18:04:53 PDT
in reply to Re: Biggest Cap Secret..... (1088), posted by Batroc on July 03, 1997 at 22:44:28 PDT

> He must like it, he did it again in Superia Strategem or whatever that was called. Batroc

Twice in fifty years is NOT a habit, neh?

-DM

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 04, 1997 at 18:08:05 PDT

Happy Cap Day!

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 04, 1997 at 18:10:04 PDT

The Avengers Poll results are in at:

http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/avengers_poll.html

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Posted by Roscoe on July 04, 1997 at 18:16:40 PDT
in reply to Re: Happy 4th...Waiting for the Madbomb Trivia Question.... (1091), posted by Roscoe on July 04, 1997 at 15:40:40 PDT

> > > Happy July 4th everyone...!
> > > I will get home a little before midnite eastern-time tonite and will check this board, to anxiously await Batroc's unveiling of the Jonah-Cap trivia answer at the witching hour! Batroc has proved he is the Trivia King. (Unless the answer turns out to be an old issue of Not Brand Echh or something....)
> > > Rob
> > >>>>There is still time for you to save the Oval Office Rob. You have been sooooooo close in your posts this week that you will never forgive yourself. Until then it is a marathon of fear until the witching hour. Baahahahahahhahahaha.....The Mad Leaper

> Who has been close with their posts? I seem to recall you said somewhere you were going to give us a hint, but I don't recall seeing it.

> -Roscoe

Unfortunately something has come up, so unless Batroc extends the deadline till noon tomorrow, I wont be able to do my last minute reearch push on this question. It's a hard one.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 19:07:20 PDT
in reply to Avengers Poll Complete! (1094), posted by David Medinnus on July 04, 1997 at 18:10:04 PDT

> The Avengers Poll results are in at:
> http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/avengers_poll.html
>>>It looks like Cap is chairman, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Thor, Iron Man, Hawkeye. Now that is a line-up. Someone call Marvel. I'm sure Dave M. already has. Batroc

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Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 19:10:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Biggest Cap Secret..... (1092), posted by Dave Medinnus on July 04, 1997 at 18:04:53 PDT

»
> > He must like it, he did it again in Superia Strategem or whatever that was called. Batroc
> Twice in fifty years is NOT a habit, neh?
> -DM
>>>> If he did it once, he'll do it again. In the golden age story was he messing around with that hussy Betty Ross? She was always getting him in awkward situations. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 19:19:18 PDT

Especially since you have little time ,,,maaahahahahahaha!!!!
Here you go
1.) The Wolverine Jet
2.) Mother Night
3.) "Gentlemen" Gene Colan
>>>>Roscoe is out partying, Dave M. and Rob the fate of the free world
hinges upon you.
****Rob, if you are half the person I think you are, you are going to
take one look at these hints and kick yourself in the backside for not
knowing the answer in the first place.
A smug, patriotic, devious, Leaper......

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Posted by Big Sal on July 04, 1997 at 20:28:48 PDT

Is anyone excited to see Ron Garney draw Cap ?

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Posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 20:56:37 PDT
in reply to Yeah, I'll give you three hints on my Triv Question!! (1098), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 19:19:18 PDT

> Especially since you have little time ,,,maaahahahahahaha!!!!
> Here you go
> 1.) The Wolverine Jet
> 2.) Mother Night
> 3.) "Gentlemen" Gene Colan
> >>>>Roscoe is out partying, Dave M. and Rob the fate of the free world
> hinges upon you.
> ****Rob, if you are half the person I think you are, you are going to
> take one look at these hints and kick yourself in the backside for not
> knowing the answer in the first place.
> A smug, patriotic, devious, Leaper......

I'm still drawing a blank....five minutes to go til midnite!!!

Rob

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Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 20:59:18 PDT
in reply to Re: Yeah, I'll give you three hints on my Triv Question!! (1100), posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 20:56:37 PDT

»
> > Especially since you have little time ,,,maaahahahahahaha!!!!
> > Here you go
> > 1.) The Wolverine Jet
> > 2.) Mother Night
> > 3.) "Gentlemen" Gene Colan
> > >>>>Roscoe is out partying, Dave M. and Rob the fate of the free world
> > hinges upon you.
> > ****Rob, if you are half the person I think you are, you are going to
> > take one look at these hints and kick yourself in the backside for not
> > knowing the answer in the first place.
> > A smug, patriotic, devious, Leaper......
> I'm still drawing a blank....five minutes to go til midnite!!!
> Rob
>>>>Less than that ...let's see Scarbo/Minister Blood....Joe Sinnott ....Batroc

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Posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 21:02:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Yeah, I'll give you three hints on my Triv Question!! (1101), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 20:59:18 PDT

If you are there, come to the chat room at this site!

Rob

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Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 21:04:41 PDT
in reply to Hey, Batroc! (1102), posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 21:02:43 PDT

»
> If you are there, come to the chat room at this site!
> Rob
I don't think I know how. If I did I would have to use another
server with better capabilities. Any hints!!! Anyway, I have to
go poison the President. Batroc

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Posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 21:09:49 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey, Batroc! (1103), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 21:04:41 PDT

> »
> > If you are there, come to the chat room at this site!
> > Rob
> I don't think I know how. If I did I would have to use another
> server with better capabilities. Any hints!!! Anyway, I have to
> go poison the President. Batroc

Ah well...no, I don't have any hints....So, what was the Trivia answer??

And if the chat-thing works, we should arrange a Cap chat now & then...

I'll be in the LFS Chat for the next ten minutes or so...

Rob

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Posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 21:19:57 PDT

Captain America #123!!!!!! It's in one panel. I am assuming Cap did not meet JJJ when Spidey tried to join the Avengers (old Spidey annual reprinted in GS Spiderman #2) my copy is at my mom's house. (I don't think it happened).
Roscoe, you specifically mentioned this issue. Rob, you mentioned #122 and we posted quite a bit on Gene Colan's work.
It is the first appearance of Suprema (later Mother Night) and she got around in a "Wolverine Jet" Gene Colan/Joe Sinnot did the art.
Cap and JJJ appear in one panel as he is researching the Bugle's records on teh Scarbo family.
>>> I tried to use my other server to chat but I am having problems, I will try to work on it.
BATROC

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Posted by Rob on July 04, 1997 at 21:23:29 PDT
in reply to The Answer is>>>> (1105), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 21:19:57 PDT

> Captain America #123!!!!!! It's in one panel. I am assuming Cap did not meet JJJ when Spidey tried to join the Avengers (old Spidey annual reprinted in GS Spiderman #2) my copy is at my mom's house. (I don't think it happened).
> Roscoe, you specifically mentioned this issue. Rob, you mentioned #122 and we posted quite a bit on Gene Colan's work.
> It is the first appearance of Suprema (later Mother Night) and she got around in a "Wolverine Jet" Gene Colan/Joe Sinnot did the art.
> Cap and JJJ appear in one panel as he is researching the Bugle's records on teh Scarbo family.
> >>> I tried to use my other server to chat but I am having problems, I will try to work on it.
> BATROC

Gaaahhh!! I will have to check that issue! It is one of the issues I'd not had for a long time and then finally got it last year! I thought maybe it was a Colan issue based on what you said earlier today, but I couldn't imagine what issue! Batroc, you are the Trivia King!!

Yes, I saw you had entered the LFS chat Room but didn't answer my messages in there...I'll wait around in there for another fifteen minutes and then probably take off.... Batroc, well done!!!!!!!

Rob

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Posted by Roscoe on July 05, 1997 at 00:51:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Yeah, I'll give you three hints on my Triv Question!! (1101), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 20:59:18 PDT

> »
> > > Especially since you have little time ,,,maaahahahahahaha!!!!
> > > Here you go
> > > 1.) The Wolverine Jet
> > > 2.) Mother Night
> > > 3.) "Gentlemen" Gene Colan
> > > >>>>Roscoe is out partying, Dave M. and Rob the fate of the free world
> > > hinges upon you.
> > > ****Rob, if you are half the person I think you are, you are going to
> > > take one look at these hints and kick yourself in the backside for not
> > > knowing the answer in the first place.
> > > A smug, patriotic, devious, Leaper......
> > I'm still drawing a blank....five minutes to go til midnite!!!
> > Rob
> >>>>Less than that ...let's see Scarbo/Minister Blood....Joe Sinnott ....Batroc

Well, it's past midnight and I am aware you have posted the answer already. However, since I have just arrived from a pressing engagement and haven't read the answer yet, I can safely post that, thanks to these hints, I have ferreted out the answer.

Cap #123. This is tricky. i had to look through the issue 3 times to find the panel with JJJ. It was also iritating, because I had read #112-120 and #122 and #125-148 looking for the damn thing. Oh well.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Roscoe on July 05, 1997 at 01:00:53 PDT
in reply to The Answer is>>>> (1105), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 21:19:57 PDT

> Captain America #123!!!!!! It's in one panel. I am assuming Cap did not meet JJJ when Spidey tried to join the Avengers (old Spidey annual reprinted in GS Spiderman #2) my copy is at my mom's house. (I don't think it happened).
> Roscoe, you specifically mentioned this issue. Rob, you mentioned #122 and we posted quite a bit on Gene Colan's work.
> It is the first appearance of Suprema (later Mother Night) and she got around in a "Wolverine Jet" Gene Colan/Joe Sinnot did the art.
> Cap and JJJ appear in one panel as he is researching the Bugle's records on teh Scarbo family.
> >>> I tried to use my other server to chat but I am having problems, I will try to work on it.
> BATROC

The answer was clear once you said Scarbo and Mother Night, but I didn't read your post till 3:30 cause I had guests over. Your first hints made it clear it was in the #110's or #120's, but since I had read most of those, I didn't know which it was. I read every damn issue from #112-148 and then some, really #112-160 with the exceptions of #113, #121, #123 and #124. But Scarbo and Mother Night...just had to check #355, cause I knew there was a footnote in that telling which issue they first appeared in. Tough question.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Roscoe on July 05, 1997 at 02:30:47 PDT
in reply to Cap (1099), posted by Big Sal on July 04, 1997 at 20:28:48 PDT

> Is anyone excited to see Ron Garney draw Cap ?

I am. i thought his art was terrific in the few he did, and there were some great covers, especially #445. By the way, what's your top 10 or so best Cap covers ever, everyone? I'll have to think about mine.

Since I don't have his original stuff, lets say we limit this to modern age. ToS #58-Cap #454.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Batroc on July 05, 1997 at 05:26:21 PDT

>>After all failed to answer the triv question, I planned to take the serpent venom to the President as I promised. Unfortunately for the Leaper, Rob kept the Leaper on the Chat Line long enough for the FBI to take Batroc into custody. The world is safe for now, but if one more Cap triv question is missed.............I cannot be accountable. Sacre Bleu! The Leaper

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 05, 1997 at 16:25:34 PDT

Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Posted by Rob on July 06, 1997 at 00:26:16 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap (1109), posted by Roscoe on July 05, 1997 at 02:30:47 PDT

> i thought his art was terrific in the few he did, and there were some great covers, especially #445. By the way, what's your top 10 or so best Cap covers ever, everyone? I'll have to think about mine.

> Since I don't have his original stuff, lets say we limit this to modern age. ToS #58-Cap #454.

> -Roscoe

Okay..what the heck...Limiting my choices to Cap #100-454, since I don't have enough TOS to judge...

1. Cap #111 (Steranko)
2. Cap #109 (Kirby's Cap busting thru newspaper)
3. Cap #110 (Steranko, with Cap seeing Hulk and Bucky)
4. Cap #445 (okay, the new guy did do a great cover)
5. Cap #286 (Zeck's Deathlok...even if Cap is barely on the cover)
6. Cap #193 (Kirby + Romita...basis for Frenz's #349?, also a great cover)
7. Zeck did some great ones including #281, 278, etc...difficult to pick a favorite! (okay, I like #286 the best)
8. Cap #107 (Kirby's Cap going crazy)
9. Of the 1970s ones, some of my faves are #144, 154, 171, 176, 183.
10. More recent ones I liked included #367 & 383.

Honorable mention: all the great stuff done by Frank Miller, John Byrne, Gil Kane, John Romita, etc.

Rob

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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 06, 1997 at 10:31:19 PDT
in reply to Hey! (1111), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 05, 1997 at 16:25:34 PDT

> Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 06, 1997 at 11:30:51 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey! (1113), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 06, 1997 at 10:31:19 PDT

> > Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

>
> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

Annual? Yeah! I think I remember the cover! Was it the one where Wolverine breaks his claws on Cap's shield and Wolvie was in his old brown and yellow costume?! Oh, yeah and I also forgot that Werewolf fiasco when that entire town turned into Werewolves and Wolvie was hypnotized into going up against Cap and he was along side Druid! Is that a different Doc Druid? This guy has hair and the other didn't!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Posted by Shocker on July 06, 1997 at 15:25:20 PDT

Back in Onslaught: Marvel Universe, the following points are to be made. -knowing he would have to sacrifice himself for the people of the world
-knowing mutants couldn't enter
-knowing that Wolverine was in need of adamantium
-knowing if this plan didn't work that the remaining mutants would have to be at 100% fighting strength
-knowing that being dead he would no longer have a use for his shield
What I'm trying to say is, Why didn't Cap give his shield to Wolverine as a gift to his longtime friend? It would be a favor by a war hero to a war hero. Instead he ended up as a dead jerk.

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Posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 16:44:41 PDT
in reply to Cap could have helped an old friend (1115), posted by Shocker on July 06, 1997 at 15:25:20 PDT

> Back in Onslaught: Marvel Universe, the following points are to be made. -knowing he would have to sacrifice himself for the people of the world
> -knowing mutants couldn't enter
> -knowing that Wolverine was in need of adamantium
> -knowing if this plan didn't work that the remaining mutants would have to be at 100% fighting strength
> -knowing that being dead he would no longer have a use for his shield
> What I'm trying to say is, Why didn't Cap give his shield to Wolverine as a gift to his longtime friend? It would be a favor by a war hero to a war hero. Instead he ended up as a dead jerk.

First, Cap never says die. I don't think he "knew" he was going to die there, so why would he give up his shield?

Secondly, Cap and Wolverine were never exactly great pals. They had one adventure during the 1940's (X-Men #268) and then didn't really meet again until Secret Wars, where Wolverine acts like a jerk and the two almost get in a fight. Then they fight in Annual #8; they fight in X-Men vs. the Avengers; they fight in Cap-Wolf (Cap #402-408).

If Cap was going to give his shield to anyone who survived...well, I can't think of anyone he'd give it to. Cap almost never lets anyone use his shield, much less have it. The only people I can think of who he'd give his shield to are Thor, Hawkeye and Nick Fury (maybe the original Bucky, but he is dead).

-Roscoe

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Posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 17:35:07 PDT
in reply to Stars and Stripes!! (1085), posted by Batroc on July 03, 1997 at 08:20:22 PDT

> >>Discussing various artists renditions of the Captain, I would like to ask: How many stripes are on his uniform? A fan in the letter's page said 13. Is that correct? It sounds right or at least politically correct.
> You know according to Jack Kirby's "Captain America's Bicentennial Battles", Betsy Ross saw a time traveling Cap and of course his colorful costume was inspiration for Old Glory.
> A patriotic Batroc....Viva le France.

It seems to change all the time. Some artists put more then others. But I say 4 red stripes and 4 white for a total of 8.

10 if you can't the three on his shield. ;P

Mike....

• Sentinel of Liberty Home Page

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Posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 18:09:12 PDT

Hey all

The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

Mike....

• Sentinel of Liberty Home Page

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Posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 18:11:33 PDT
in reply to Cap could have helped an old friend (1115), posted by Shocker on July 06, 1997 at 15:25:20 PDT

> Back in Onslaught: Marvel Universe, the following points are to be made. -knowing he would have to sacrifice himself for the people of the world
> -knowing mutants couldn't enter
> -knowing that Wolverine was in need of adamantium
> -knowing if this plan didn't work that the remaining mutants would have to be at 100% fighting strength
> -knowing that being dead he would no longer have a use for his shield
> What I'm trying to say is, Why didn't Cap give his shield to Wolverine as a gift to his longtime friend? It would be a favor by a war hero to a war hero. Instead he ended up as a dead jerk.

Uh...I missed out on all the Onslaught junk but since when are Wolverine and Captain America longtime friends?

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Posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 18:14:45 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey! (1114), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 06, 1997 at 11:30:51 PDT

> > > Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

> >
> > >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull

> > >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

> Annual? Yeah! I think I remember the cover! Was it the one where Wolverine breaks his claws on Cap's shield and Wolvie was in his old brown and yellow costume?! Oh, yeah and I also forgot that Werewolf fiasco when that entire town turned into Werewolves and Wolvie was hypnotized into going up against Cap and he was along side Druid! Is that a different Doc Druid? This guy has hair and the other didn't!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Nope, no yellow costume or claw breaking. It was Captain America annual #8. They fought for about three panels, each easily evading the others blow before they were interupted by a big robot crashing through a wall. That's as far as the fight went.

I think the issue you are thinking of was one of those "alternate future Deathblow mini series Europe" comic. Number 4 I think.

Mike....

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Posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 19:31:20 PDT
in reply to Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1118), posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 18:09:12 PDT

> Hey all

> The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

> Mike....

There was a picture of him in there too...or in something I saw. He was wearing the eyepatch. Didn't look too bad, but then, a photo can't act. Neither can Hasslehoff.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 20:51:33 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1121), posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 19:31:20 PDT

> > Hey all

> > The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

> > Mike....

> There was a picture of him in there too...or in something I saw. He was wearing the eyepatch. Didn't look too bad, but then, a photo can't act. Neither can Hasslehoff.

> -Roscoe

Yep. There was a picture too. I think they should have got Clint Eastwood. Heh.

Mike....

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Posted by Rob on July 06, 1997 at 21:12:52 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey! (1120), posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 18:14:45 PDT

> > > > Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

> > >
> > > >
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull

> > > >
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > > Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

> > Annual? Yeah! I think I remember the cover! Was it the one where Wolverine breaks his claws on Cap's shield and Wolvie was in his old brown and yellow costume?! Oh, yeah and I also forgot that Werewolf fiasco when that entire town turned into Werewolves and Wolvie was hypnotized into going up against Cap and he was along side Druid! Is that a different Doc Druid? This guy has hair and the other didn't!

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> Nope, no yellow costume or claw breaking. It was Captain America annual #8. They fought for about three panels, each easily evading the others blow before they were interupted by a big robot crashing through a wall. That's as far as the fight went.

> I think the issue you are thinking of was one of those "alternate future Deathblow mini series Europe" comic. Number 4 I think.

> Mike....

I think Plaidy is talking about the "Capwolf" issues around #404. Druid was in that...I think he had hair because something had occured in another comic where Druid became younger. (Relying on memory here...)

Rob
(who liked Dr Druid back in the old "Weird Wonder Tales" days)

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Posted by Rob on July 06, 1997 at 21:16:35 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap could have helped an old friend (1116), posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 16:44:41 PDT

> If Cap was going to give his shield to anyone who survived...well, I can't think of anyone he'd give it to. Cap almost never lets anyone use his shield, much less have it. The only people I can think of who he'd give his shield to are Thor, Hawkeye and Nick Fury (maybe the original Bucky, but he is dead).

> -Roscoe

An injured Cap gave his shield to Wonder Man in Avengers #265 if i remember right!

Rob

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Posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 21:47:10 PDT
in reply to Re: Favorite Cap Covers (1112), posted by Rob on July 06, 1997 at 00:26:16 PDT

> > i thought his art was terrific in the few he did, and there were some great covers, especially #445. By the way, what's your top 10 or so best Cap covers ever, everyone? I'll have to think about mine.

> > Since I don't have his original stuff, lets say we limit this to modern age. ToS #58-Cap #454.

> > -Roscoe

> Okay..what the heck...Limiting my choices to Cap #100-454, since I don't have enough TOS to judge...

> 1. Cap #111 (Steranko)
> 2. Cap #109 (Kirby's Cap busting thru newspaper)
> 3. Cap #110 (Steranko, with Cap seeing Hulk and Bucky)
> 4. Cap #445 (okay, the new guy did do a great cover)
> 5. Cap #286 (Zeck's Deathlok...even if Cap is barely on the cover)
> 6. Cap #193 (Kirby + Romita...basis for Frenz's #349?, also a great cover)
> 7. Zeck did some great ones including #281, 278, etc...difficult to pick a favorite! (okay, I like #286 the best)
> 8. Cap #107 (Kirby's Cap going crazy)
> 9. Of the 1970s ones, some of my faves are #144, 154, 171, 176, 183.
> 10. More recent ones I liked included #367 & 383.

> Honorable mention: all the great stuff done by Frank Miller, John Byrne, Gil Kane, John Romita, etc.

> Rob

I still havent gone through my whole collection to pick out al the covers I really like and put them in some order, but let me quickly run down, from memory, the covers that stand out for me.

#58
#59
#60
#96
#109
#110
#111
#113
#139
#143
#146
#147
#148
#231
#241
#255
#283 ( I think; with Cap & Bucky, with a strip of film on the cover)
#286
#298
#323
#332
#341
#346
#444
#445
#453 (I think, the one where they're falling, and Sharon is strapped in the chair)

Those are just off the top of my head. I'll have to say that the Steranko covers are called classic covers for a reason, with #113 probably being my all time favorite Cap cover.

I'll eventually get my act together and put this in a coherant form, with comments on each cover.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Patriot on July 07, 1997 at 06:23:36 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1121), posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 19:31:20 PDT

> > Hey all

> > The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

> > Mike....

> There was a picture of him in there too...or in something I saw. He was wearing the eyepatch. Didn't look too bad, but then, a photo can't act. Neither can Hasslehoff.

> -Roscoe

I thought the picture looked good as well. However I'm not going to prejudge the movie until I see it. Hasselhoff is not one of the greats but he isn't a terrible actor. I think you might be judging him on his projects instead of his ability (anyone would look rediculous on Baywatch Nights).

Patriot.

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Posted by TJ Burns on July 07, 1997 at 07:48:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Wolverine, Cap, Dr Druid (1123), posted by Rob on July 06, 1997 at 21:12:52 PDT

>
> > > > > Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cya
> > > > > The Plaid Skull

> > > > >
> > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > > > Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

> > > Annual? Yeah! I think I remember the cover! Was it the one where Wolverine breaks his claws on Cap's shield and Wolvie was in his old brown and yellow costume?! Oh, yeah and I also forgot that Werewolf fiasco when that entire town turned into Werewolves and Wolvie was hypnotized into going up against Cap and he was along side Druid! Is that a different Doc Druid? This guy has hair and the other didn't!

> >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull

> > >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

>
> > Nope, no yellow costume or claw breaking. It was Captain America annual #8. They fought for about three panels, each easily evading the others blow before they were interupted by a big robot crashing through a wall. That's as far as the fight went.

> > I think the issue you are thinking of was one of those "alternate future Deathblow mini series Europe" comic. Number 4 I think.

> > Mike....

> I think Plaidy is talking about the "Capwolf" issues around #404. Druid was in that...I think he had hair because something had occured in another comic where Druid became younger. (Relying on memory here...)

> Rob
> (who liked Dr Druid back in the old "Weird Wonder Tales" days)

Druid regained his youth in Avengers Spotlight #37.

TJB
Who wishes Marvel hadn't ruined poor Dr. Druid.

Host = 206.28.33.119 (206.28.33.119)

Posted by TJ Burns on July 07, 1997 at 07:51:26 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap could have helped an old friend (1124), posted by Rob on July 06, 1997 at 21:16:35 PDT

> > If Cap was going to give his shield to anyone who survived...well, I can't think of anyone he'd give it to. Cap almost never lets anyone use his shield, much less have it. The only people I can think of who he'd give his shield to are Thor, Hawkeye and Nick Fury (maybe the original Bucky, but he is dead).

> > -Roscoe

> An injured Cap gave his shield to Wonder Man in Avengers #265 if i remember right!

> Rob

It was issue #165 and I would add Tony Stark or Hank Pym to the list of those who Cap would trust with his Shield.

TJB

Host = 206.28.33.119 (206.28.33.119)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 07, 1997 at 08:21:15 PDT
in reply to Re: Wolverine, Cap, Dr Druid (1127), posted by TJ Burns on July 07, 1997 at 07:48:41 PDT

> >
> > > > > > Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > The Plaid Skull

> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > > > > Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

> > > > Annual? Yeah! I think I remember the cover! Was it the one where Wolverine breaks his claws on Cap's shield and Wolvie was in his old brown and yellow costume?! Oh, yeah and I also forgot that Werewolf fiasco when that entire town turned into Werewolves and Wolvie was hypnotized into going up against Cap and he was along side Druid! Is that a different Doc Druid? This guy has hair and the other didn't!

> > >
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull

> > > >
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> >
> > > Nope, no yellow costume or claw breaking. It was Captain America annual #8. They fought for about three panels, each easily evading the others blow before they were interupted by a big robot crashing through a wall. That's as far as the fight went.

> > > I think the issue you are thinking of was one of those "alternate future Deathblow mini series Europe" comic. Number 4 I think.

> > > Mike....

> > I think Plaidy is talking about the "Capwolf" issues around #404. Druid was in that...I think he had hair because something had occured in another comic where Druid became younger. (Relying on memory here...)

> > Rob
> > (who liked Dr Druid back in the old "Weird Wonder Tales" days)

>
> Druid regained his youth in Avengers Spotlight #37.

> TJB
> Who wishes Marvel hadn't ruined poor Dr. Druid.

Doesn't Druid live in a trash can now?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-10.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.42)

Posted by W.D. on July 07, 1997 at 10:25:47 PDT

Cap-files,

What is the distinguishing thing about what Cap is doing on the cover on issue #247?

W.D.

Host = 199.222.162.39 (199.222.162.39)

Posted by Falcon on July 07, 1997 at 10:56:39 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1126), posted by Patriot on July 07, 1997 at 06:23:36 PDT

>
> > > Hey all

> > > The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

> > > Mike....

> > There was a picture of him in there too...or in something I saw. He was wearing the eyepatch. Didn't look too bad, but then, a photo can't act. Neither can Hasslehoff.

> > -Roscoe

> I thought the picture looked good as well. However I'm not going to prejudge the movie until I see it. Hasselhoff is not one of the greats but he isn't a terrible actor. I think you might be judging him on his projects instead of his ability (anyone would look rediculous on Baywatch Nights).

> Patriot.

I think David Hasselhoff would make a lousy Fury and this seems to me like another kick in the keister for Marvel's movie projects. And how else would you judge his ability if not by his projects? What's he got so far? Knight Rider, Baywatch, BW Nights, and some B movies. In none of these has he shown any good, let alone great, ability; he has pretty much played the same part in all his stuff.

Falcon

Host = mpngate4.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.52)

Posted by Rob on July 07, 1997 at 14:33:52 PDT
in reply to Quiz Question! (1130), posted by W.D. on July 07, 1997 at 10:25:47 PDT

> Cap-files,

> What is the distinguishing thing about what Cap is doing on the cover on issue #247?

> W.D.

Um, holding his old triangle shield?

Rob
(relying on memory again!)

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by TJ Burns on July 07, 1997 at 17:06:04 PDT
in reply to Re: Wolverine, Cap, Dr Druid (1129), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 07, 1997 at 08:21:15 PDT

> > >
> > > > > > > Did Wolverine ever beat Cap?

> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > > The Plaid Skull

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > > > > > Nahhhh...as far as I'm aware...they have only really had one battle. That was in an annual (1987?).This fight was a draw with both of them realizing that they misunderstood each other. Kinda lame.... The one or two other possible scraps were interupted before they were really fights.

> > > > > Annual? Yeah! I think I remember the cover! Was it the one where Wolverine breaks his claws on Cap's shield and Wolvie was in his old brown and yellow costume?! Oh, yeah and I also forgot that Werewolf fiasco when that entire town turned into Werewolves and Wolvie was hypnotized into going up against Cap and he was along side Druid! Is that a different Doc Druid? This guy has hair and the other didn't!

> > > >
> > > > > Cya
> > > > > The Plaid Skull

> > > > >
> > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > >
> > > > Nope, no yellow costume or claw breaking. It was Captain America annual #8. They fought for about three panels, each easily evading the others blow before they were interupted by a big robot crashing through a wall. That's as far as the fight went.

> > > > I think the issue you are thinking of was one of those "alternate future Deathblow mini series Europe" comic. Number 4 I think.

> > > > Mike....

> > > I think Plaidy is talking about the "Capwolf" issues around #404. Druid was in that...I think he had hair because something had occured in another comic where Druid became younger. (Relying on memory here...)

> > > Rob
> > > (who liked Dr Druid back in the old "Weird Wonder Tales" days)

> >
> > Druid regained his youth in Avengers Spotlight #37.

> > TJB
> > Who wishes Marvel hadn't ruined poor Dr. Druid.

> Doesn't Druid live in a trash can now?

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

No, He's dead in a trash can now. (Sound of uncontrolable sobbing)

TJB

Host = peopl26.mis.NET (206.28.33.126)

Posted by Batroc on July 07, 1997 at 17:18:38 PDT

>>>The Leaper has picked up and perused Strange Tales 160-161 per the recommendations of Roscoe and Rob.
They were as good as advertised with Jim Steranko doing both the writing and art. His art would be better in his Cap run 110, 111, and 113.
I believe it is also the first appearance of Jimmy Woo and the first silver age apperance of the Yellow Claw (one of my all time favorite villians) See Cap 164-167 for THE classic Cap/Claw showdown.
I recomend the Steranko Strange Tales Caps (159-162?) to all fellow Cap fans.
Note to Rob: #161 had a cameo of the Yellow Claw in an epilogue that might have been deleted from your reprinted version.
The way of Honor...............Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 07, 1997 at 17:44:23 PDT
in reply to Re: Quiz Question! (1132), posted by Rob on July 07, 1997 at 14:33:52 PDT

»
> > Cap-files,
> > What is the distinguishing thing about what Cap is doing on the cover on issue #247?
> > W.D.
> Um, holding his old triangle shield?
> Rob
> (relying on memory again!)
>>>>>You are correct sir, i can see nothing else except it is one of the few cover appearances of Dum Dum Dugan. He had a heart attack in #281 and semi-retired. I see he is now doing much better. I bet he is one of the few WWII veteran SHIELD field operatives.
Was this a triv question? Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Druid on July 07, 1997 at 18:58:36 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap could have helped an old friend (1128), posted by TJ Burns on July 07, 1997 at 07:51:26 PDT

>
> > > If Cap was going to give his shield to anyone who survived...well, I can't think of anyone he'd give it to. Cap almost never lets anyone use his shield, much less have it. The only people I can think of who he'd give his shield to are Thor, Hawkeye and Nick Fury (maybe the original Bucky, but he is dead).

> > > -Roscoe

> > An injured Cap gave his shield to Wonder Man in Avengers #265 if i remember right!

> > Rob

> It was issue #165 and I would add Tony Stark or Hank Pym to the list of those who Cap would trust with his Shield.

> TJB

Host = csd1-230.sd.cybernex.net (204.141.236.230)

Posted by Druid on July 07, 1997 at 19:01:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap could have helped an old friend (1128), posted by TJ Burns on July 07, 1997 at 07:51:26 PDT

>
> > > If Cap was going to give his shield to anyone who survived...well, I can't think of anyone he'd give it to. Cap almost never lets anyone use his shield, much less have it. The only people I can think of who he'd give his shield to are Thor, Hawkeye and Nick Fury (maybe the original Bucky, but he is dead).

> > > -Roscoe

> > An injured Cap gave his shield to Wonder Man in Avengers #265 if i remember right!

> > Rob

> It was issue #165 and I would add Tony Stark or Hank Pym to the list of those who Cap would trust with his Shield.

> TJB

Cap loaned his shield to Hawkeye in circa Cap 317, when cap and hawk went up against a bunch a villians who juggled. Cap gave it hawk because he felt hawk was going into an ambush and a defensive weapon would be better than an offensive one.

Host = csd1-230.sd.cybernex.net (204.141.236.230)

Posted by Roscoe on July 07, 1997 at 20:36:57 PDT
in reply to Strange Tales of Cap (1134), posted by Batroc on July 07, 1997 at 17:18:38 PDT

> >>>The Leaper has picked up and perused Strange Tales 160-161 per the recommendations of Roscoe and Rob.
> They were as good as advertised with Jim Steranko doing both the writing and art. His art would be better in his Cap run 110, 111, and 113.
> I believe it is also the first appearance of Jimmy Woo and the first silver age apperance of the Yellow Claw (one of my all time favorite villians) See Cap 164-167 for THE classic Cap/Claw showdown.
> I recomend the Steranko Strange Tales Caps (159-162?) to all fellow Cap fans.
> Note to Rob: #161 had a cameo of the Yellow Claw in an epilogue that might have been deleted from your reprinted version.
> The way of Honor...............Batroc

You didn't mention the splash page in #161, one of the greatest splash pages it has been my pleasure to look at.

-Roscoe

p.s. Hey, Batroc, what covers do you like?

Host = wor-ma2-12.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.76)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 07, 1997 at 20:46:54 PDT
in reply to Strange Tales of Cap (1134), posted by Batroc on July 07, 1997 at 17:18:38 PDT

> >>>The Leaper has picked up and perused Strange Tales 160-161 per the recommendations of Roscoe and Rob.
> They were as good as advertised with Jim Steranko doing both the writing and art. His art would be better in his Cap run 110, 111, and 113.
> I believe it is also the first appearance of Jimmy Woo and the first silver age apperance of the Yellow Claw (one of my all time favorite villians) See Cap 164-167 for THE classic Cap/Claw showdown.
> I recomend the Steranko Strange Tales Caps (159-162?) to all fellow Cap fans.
> Note to Rob: #161 had a cameo of the Yellow Claw in an epilogue that might have been deleted from your reprinted version.
> The way of Honor...............Batroc

Y'know some guy from another message board said that the Yellow Claw was a racist biggot creation and that's why they don't use him anymore! You think this is true?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-01.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.65)