Posted by Mr. Mind on July 23, 1997 at 01:45:51 PDT

I have always wondered what Steve Rogers' age was when he became Cap. I personally think he was 20, which makes his year of birth 1920. Does anyone want to offer their own opinions on how old Steve was when he drank the super soldier serum?

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Posted by Patriot on July 23, 1997 at 05:29:04 PDT
in reply to How old was Steve Rogers when he became Cap? (1307), posted by Mr. Mind on July 23, 1997 at 01:45:51 PDT

> I have always wondered what Steve Rogers' age was when he became Cap. I personally think he was 20, which makes his year of birth 1920. Does anyone want to offer their own opinions on how old Steve was when he drank the super soldier serum?

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Posted by Tony Stark on July 23, 1997 at 08:56:56 PDT
in reply to How old was Steve Rogers when he became Cap? (1307), posted by Mr. Mind on July 23, 1997 at 01:45:51 PDT

> I have always wondered what Steve Rogers' age was when he became Cap. I personally think he was 20, which makes his year of birth 1920. Does anyone want to offer their own opinions on how old Steve was when he drank the super soldier serum?

As Patriot pointed out, Steve Rogers was born July 4, 1917. That means he was 23 when he took the Super Soldier Serum, and 28 when he was thrown into suspended animation.
While we're on the subject has the birthday of other heroes ever been revealed?

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Posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:33:22 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1209), posted by Falcon on July 12, 1997 at 13:03:04 PDT

> > > > If Generation X flopped, this one ain't gonna fare any better. I hate being a comics fan sometimes. These movies depress me. I'd like to know how much control Stan has had over these lousy films. Afetr all, wasn't that his job these last couple of decades? If these were my creations, I'd be like a Todd McFarlane with them, very protective, and not so eager to jump into bed with the first film company that came along!

> > >
> > > I almost retch at the thought of Hasselhoff as Fury; what a joke. The best actor I can think of to fill the part would be Bruce Willis. I think that would work, but nooo, they had to make a cheesy flick with a guy who stars on crappy but inexplicably popular TV shows and makes inexplicably popular music (though thank goodness, not in the USA).

> > > Falcon

> > Yes, Bruce Willis would be a better choice for Nuck Fury than David Hasselhoff. Just way too pricey for what they'd want to pay. How about Jerry Doyle, Babylons 5's Michael Garibaldi in the role?
> > I've never understood the failure if Marvel's properties in the live action arena. Their track record is abysmal. Of all of them to come out over the past two decades, only The Incredible Hulk has done respectfully with the audience. That is due in great part to Kenneth Johnson.
> > I will watch the Nick Fury movie when it is broadcast on Fox. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprise.
> > Nightman

> That's not necessarily true about Bruce Willis. He did do Pulp Fiction, which couldn't have paid him all that much (I heard John Travolta got 100G) and I don't think 5th Element gave him more than a few million. I'm sure if they pitched it right (and had a good script) he'd go for it. I'm not familiar with Jerry Doyle, but just about anyone's better than Hasselhoff. Another better choice, I think, could be Lance Henriksen from Millenium. He's old (which Fury is supposed to be) but still somewhat spry.

> Falcon

This movie will flop as bad as the retarded Captain America movie made in the early 90's. Marvel needs to take some time and make decent comic book movies (like the original Batman the first couple Supermen flicks and the upcoming Spawn). I just hope they don't fuck up the Spider-man and X-men movies. If those ever get made.
'M'

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Posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:45:12 PDT

I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
'M'

Host = ppp-17.iosys.net (207.67.20.49)

Posted by on July 23, 1997 at 10:47:29 PDT
in reply to Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1311), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:45:12 PDT

> I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> 'M'

Host = ppp-17.iosys.net (207.67.20.49)

Posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:48:20 PDT

I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
'M'

Host = ppp-17.iosys.net (207.67.20.49)

Posted by on July 23, 1997 at 10:49:40 PDT
in reply to Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1311), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:45:12 PDT

> I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> 'M'

He sux man.
Bunko the deth clown

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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 23, 1997 at 11:04:59 PDT
in reply to Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1311), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:45:12 PDT

> I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> 'M'

hmmmmmmm.......

Host = 155.42.31.220 (155.42.31.220)

Posted by Falcon on July 23, 1997 at 11:07:58 PDT
in reply to Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1313), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:48:20 PDT

> I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> 'M'

I'm not sure, but I think pretty much everybody on this board thinks as you do (don't quote me on that), except for maybe one guy who isn't here anymore. A couple of weeks ago a few of us had a discussion, basically picking Liefeld apart. It was great, kind of a guilty pleasure. It's funny because not too long ago it seemed everybody loved Liefeld. I'm glad that there are quite a few who saw through the facade.

Falcon

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Posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 11:41:04 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1316), posted by Falcon on July 23, 1997 at 11:07:58 PDT

> > I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> > Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> > 'M'

>
> I'm not sure, but I think pretty much everybody on this board thinks as you do (don't quote me on that), except for maybe one guy who isn't here anymore. A couple of weeks ago a few of us had a discussion, basically picking Liefeld apart. It was great, kind of a guilty pleasure. It's funny because not too long ago it seemed everybody loved Liefeld. I'm glad that there are quite a few who saw through the facade.

> Falcon

I'm glad I've got support in my hatered. Trashing him is kind of a guilty pleasure. I feel much better after doing so.
'M'

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 23, 1997 at 12:57:45 PDT

I mean my birthday has come!! And these are the following things I want: I want a piece of the original Bucky's corpse, I want shrapnel from the rocket that blew up Bucky, I want the Red Skull's severed arm, I want the Red Skull's withered old corpse, I want some red dust of death, I wanna Cosmic Cube, I want Cap's shield, I want Diamondback:), I want the ashy remains of the Grand Director, I want a bottle of Adhesive X, I want a Zemo mask, and I want the original Baron Zemo's death ray!! Oh, and I also wanna pony!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, souvenirs...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-18.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.50)

Posted by Clint on July 23, 1997 at 16:13:20 PDT

Hey Captain America fans,

Hey I was wondering if anyone has any pics of the sixy DiamandBack?
Anything thats scanned will do. Thanks, if you do email at
TekArrow2@aol.com. Thanks again.

Host = ww-tm01.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.35)

Posted by Mindseye on July 23, 1997 at 16:58:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Even Match (1298), posted by Patriot on July 20, 1997 at 18:26:00 PDT

>
> > > Out of everyone in the Marvel Universe who do you think is the most even to Captain America? I think it is Wolverine. What do you guys think?

> > > The Spectacular AJP

> > I think it's the Red Skull!! After all he is Steve's clone!!

> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> I don't think Red Skull has Cap's fighting skills though he does have the physical attributes. I don't think that Kingpin could beat Cap as he did Skull.
> I also think AJP was refering to heroes in Cap's league. The MU hero I think that could rival Cap is Black Panther. He is like a Super Soldier when the Panther totem is with him.

> Patriot

Personally, I have to go with Daredevil. Sure, Cap's got the serum, but DD's no slouch in the fighting area either. Besides, to me they seem like the same persona born in different times...

Host = 156.26.114.69 (156.26.114.69)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 23, 1997 at 17:09:49 PDT
in reply to Diamandback (1319), posted by Clint on July 23, 1997 at 16:13:20 PDT

> Hey Captain America fans,

> Hey I was wondering if anyone has any pics of the sixy DiamandBack?
> Anything thats scanned will do. Thanks, if you do email at
> TekArrow2@aol.com. Thanks again.

Host = bak-ca1-05.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.37)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 23, 1997 at 17:10:52 PDT
in reply to Re: Diamandback (1321), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 23, 1997 at 17:09:49 PDT

> > Hey Captain America fans,

> > Hey I was wondering if anyone has any pics of the sixy DiamandBack?
> > Anything thats scanned will do. Thanks, if you do email at
> > TekArrow2@aol.com. Thanks again.

Whoops!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

• Just go here!!

Host = bak-ca1-05.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.37)

Posted by druid on July 23, 1997 at 17:34:26 PDT
in reply to Doomsday has come!! (1318), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 23, 1997 at 12:57:45 PDT

> I mean my birthday has come!! And these are the following things I want: I want a piece of the original Bucky's corpse, I want shrapnel from the rocket that blew up Bucky, I want the Red Skull's severed arm, I want the Red Skull's withered old corpse, I want some red dust of death, I wanna Cosmic Cube, I want Cap's shield, I want Diamondback:), I want the ashy remains of the Grand Director, I want a bottle of Adhesive X, I want a Zemo mask, and I want the original Baron Zemo's death ray!! Oh, and I also wanna pony!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, souvenirs...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

I don't believe you are worthy enough to have Cap's shield. The rest you can have. Happy Birthday

Host = csd1-246.sd.cybernex.net (204.141.236.246)

Posted by druid on July 23, 1997 at 17:38:38 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1317), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 11:41:04 PDT

>
> > > I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> > > Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> > > 'M'

> >
> > I'm not sure, but I think pretty much everybody on this board thinks as you do (don't quote me on that), except for maybe one guy who isn't here anymore. A couple of weeks ago a few of us had a discussion, basically picking Liefeld apart. It was great, kind of a guilty pleasure. It's funny because not too long ago it seemed everybody loved Liefeld. I'm glad that there are quite a few who saw through the facade.

> > Falcon

>
> I'm glad I've got support in my hatered. Trashing him is kind of a guilty pleasure. I feel much better after doing so.
> 'M'

the one thing I really hated about the Liefeld issues was that every page seemed to be full page art, the net result being very little story.

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Posted by Falcon on July 23, 1997 at 19:35:47 PDT
in reply to Doomsday has come!! (1318), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 23, 1997 at 12:57:45 PDT

> I mean my birthday has come!! And these are the following things I want: I want a piece of the original Bucky's corpse, I want shrapnel from the rocket that blew up Bucky, I want the Red Skull's severed arm, I want the Red Skull's withered old corpse, I want some red dust of death, I wanna Cosmic Cube, I want Cap's shield, I want Diamondback:), I want the ashy remains of the Grand Director, I want a bottle of Adhesive X, I want a Zemo mask, and I want the original Baron Zemo's death ray!! Oh, and I also wanna pony!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, souvenirs...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Heeey! All I got was pajamas, Wallace and Gromit videos and gift certificates for my birthday! Happy Birthday, Plaidster!

Falcon

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Posted by paul on July 23, 1997 at 23:02:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Son of Archie's "Shield" (1305), posted by Rob on July 21, 1997 at 11:55:03 PDT

> > It was shown in flashbacks in the first Mighty Crusaders series that Joe Higgins was ambushed by an old foe, The Eraser. When The erasers disintegration ray hit The Shield it reacted with his invulnerability and turned him to stone! His son Bill took up the mantle of The Shield in honour of his father. It was then shown in Red Circles Mighty Crusaders #1 that Bill had kept his fathers fate secret for many years and when it finally was revealed, The Comet cured the original with Altroxian science. It turned out to be such a simple process and his father didn't have to be imprisoned for all those years, that Bill was so embaressed and retired fom Heroing for good.

> > paul
> > (Who admits he has every issue of The Mighty Crusaders including the Flyman trilogy introducing them!)

>
> Thanks, Paul! I did not know that. I have picked up some of those 1960s Archie superhero comics whenever I've seen them cheap, but so far only have around three or four of the 1960s ones. I wonder if they ever explained what happened to Dusty? Did he meet a fate like Cap's Bucky? Also I wonder what the recent DC version of the Shield was like.

It was never mentioned whatever happened to Dusty, though he was brought forward in time and then returned in #4 of "The Mighty Crusaders".
The Impact line that DC brought wasn't that bad, it just suffered from being a little too ahead of its time. It was still at the height of the "grim and gritty" period. Seeing the turn comics have taken,( more of a return to the silver age ),It might have been successful now. And don't forget, people like Mark Waid, Mike Parobeck and Joe Quesada worked on it, actually now I think about it it would have been perfect for DC's "animated" line of comics, the series was a lot along those lines.

"We pledge to unselfishly use our great power to defeat evil and injustice everywhere! We will save the needy, the down-trodden and anguished....topple evil persecutors and despoilers....so that all people can live in dignity, and joy, save from oppression! We will bring mercy to the afflicted and troubled! So pledge
THE MIGHTY CRUSADERS!!!

paul

Host = 203.22.232.1 (203.22.232.1)

Posted by M on July 24, 1997 at 00:23:01 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1324), posted by druid on July 23, 1997 at 17:38:38 PDT

>
> >
> > > > I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> > > > Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> > > > 'M'

> > >
> > > I'm not sure, but I think pretty much everybody on this board thinks as you do (don't quote me on that), except for maybe one guy who isn't here anymore. A couple of weeks ago a few of us had a discussion, basically picking Liefeld apart. It was great, kind of a guilty pleasure. It's funny because not too long ago it seemed everybody loved Liefeld. I'm glad that there are quite a few who saw through the facade.

> > > Falcon

> >
> > I'm glad I've got support in my hatered. Trashing him is kind of a guilty pleasure. I feel much better after doing so.
> > 'M'

> the one thing I really hated about the Liefeld issues was that every page seemed to be full page art, the net result being very little story.

He's a crappy artist and a theif! Bastard!
'M'

Host = ppp-1.iosys.net (207.67.20.33)

Posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.

May the roads you walk be forever light.

TJB

Host = 206.28.33.116 (206.28.33.116)

Posted by Rob on July 24, 1997 at 10:26:17 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.

> May the roads you walk be forever light.

>
> TJB

Hey, I'll miss you, too, TJ. Come on back as soon as you are able!

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Rob on July 24, 1997 at 10:32:10 PDT
in reply to Re: Son of Archie's "Shield" (1326), posted by paul on July 23, 1997 at 23:02:41 PDT

> The Impact line that DC brought wasn't that bad, it just suffered from being a little too ahead of its time. It was still at the height of the "grim and gritty" period. Seeing the turn comics have taken,( more of a return to the silver age ),It might have been successful now. And don't forget, people like Mark Waid, Mike Parobeck and Joe Quesada worked on it, actually now I think about it it would have been perfect for DC's "animated" line of comics, the series was a lot along those lines.

> paul

Thanks, paul. I wonder if the DC Impact series acknowledged what had gone before, or did it start all over from the beginning. I will have to pick up a few issues if I see them cheap. As I said, I didn't get them when they first came out because I liked the Archie ones and the DC ones seemed different, and in a different style, more slick & mainstream than the Red Circle stuff. Ah well, i will have to try a few!

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:38:16 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.
> May the roads you walk be forever light.
»
> TJB
>>>>>All Cap Board regulars must mourn the loss of MU expert, TJ Burns, a kindred spirit and a fellow Cap/Avengers fanatic. Hurry back TJ, it won't be the same without you. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT
in reply to George Maxon (1304), posted by Tony Stark on July 21, 1997 at 11:23:16 PDT

> I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
>>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Maxon to be an agent impersonating the Skull. Whether this charade was sanctioned by the Fuhrer or the true Skull was not clearly identified. Incidentally, TOS#65 shows that Maxon had been eliminated and replaced by a Nazi double.
The Skull had a reputation for ruthlessness and treachery before Cap #1 or the events in the retro TOS #65, #66. This was the reason Cap suspected the Maxon double Skull was an imposter. He did not have the fighting skills or prowess of the already legendary Red Skull. Jeanne Birch has revised her origin of the Red Skull somewhat to show that Johann Schmidt is the one true Skull with Maxon while recognizing that Maxon and the 1950's impersonator did assume the mantle on a few occasions. You may want to read my earlier posts on this subject from around a month ago. Batroc the Leaper
]

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Osborn on July 24, 1997 at 11:44:18 PDT
in reply to Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1311), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:45:12 PDT

> I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> 'M'

Just calm it man!!!! whew! have you taken your medication, look just stay calm. I know liefield gets to me too! He deserves one hell of a slap.

Osborn

Host = user30.max28.msn-uk.pipex.com (193.149.81.94)

Posted by Patriot on July 24, 1997 at 11:54:45 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.

> May the roads you walk be forever light.

>
> TJB

It won't be soon enough pal. We seemed to see eye to eye on a lot of things.

Patriot

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 24, 1997 at 13:11:22 PDT
in reply to Maxon..... (1332), posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT

> > I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
> >>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Maxon to be an agent impersonating the Skull. Whether this charade was sanctioned by the Fuhrer or the true Skull was not clearly identified. Incidentally, TOS#65 shows that Maxon had been eliminated and replaced by a Nazi double.
> The Skull had a reputation for ruthlessness and treachery before Cap #1 or the events in the retro TOS #65, #66. This was the reason Cap suspected the Maxon double Skull was an imposter. He did not have the fighting skills or prowess of the already legendary Red Skull. Jeanne Birc

Host = nbre1-cs-74.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.93)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 24, 1997 at 13:11:30 PDT
in reply to Maxon..... (1332), posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT

> > I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
> >>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Maxon to be an agent impersonating the Skull. Whether this charade was sanctioned by the Fuhrer or the true Skull was not clearly identified. Incidentally, TOS#65 shows that Maxon had been eliminated and replaced by a Nazi double.
> The Skull had a reputation for ruthlessness and treachery before Cap #1 or the events in the retro TOS #65, #66. This was the reason Cap suspected the Maxon double Skull was an imposter. He did not have the fighting skills or prowess of the already legendary Red Skull. Jeanne Birc

Host = nbre1-cs-74.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.93)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 24, 1997 at 13:11:38 PDT
in reply to Maxon..... (1332), posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT

> > I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
> >>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Maxon to be an agent impersonating the Skull. Whether this charade was sanctioned by the Fuhrer or the true Skull was not clearly identified. Incidentally, TOS#65 shows that Maxon had been eliminated and replaced by a Nazi double.
> The Skull had a reputation for ruthlessness and treachery before Cap #1 or the events in the retro TOS #65, #66. This was the reason Cap suspected the Maxon double Skull was an imposter. He did not have the fighting skills or prowess of the already legendary Red Skull. Jeanne Birc

Host = nbre1-cs-74.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.93)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 24, 1997 at 13:11:46 PDT
in reply to Maxon..... (1332), posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT

> > I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
> >>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Ma

Host = nbre1-cs-74.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.93)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 24, 1997 at 13:11:54 PDT
in reply to Maxon..... (1332), posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT

> > I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
> >>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Maxon to be an agent impersonating the Skull. Whether this charade was sanctioned by the Fuhrer or the true Skull was not clearly identified. Incidentally, TOS#65 shows that Maxon had been eliminated and replaced by a Nazi double.
> The Skull had a reputation for ruthlessness and treachery before Cap #1 or the events in the retro TOS #65, #66. This was the reason Cap suspected the Maxon double Skull was an imposter. He did not have the fighting skills or prowess of the already legendary Red Skull. Jeanne Birc

Host = nbre1-cs-74.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.93)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 24, 1997 at 13:12:01 PDT
in reply to Maxon..... (1332), posted by Batroc on July 24, 1997 at 10:47:25 PDT

> > I know the subject of the original Red Skull has been discussed before, but has it ever been resolved? Was George Maxon an actual Nazi, a U.S. agent posing as a Nazi, or an alias of Johann Schmidtt? What is the final fate of Maxon? Did he die, manage to evade death, faked his death and became Schmidtt? A lot has shown any of these can be true. And yet most feel Maxon was a genuine Nazi who did die. Personally I think Maxon was an agent of the U.S., who was killed by Schmiddt who assumed Maxon's idenity. Later, he dropped this guise when he apparently died. What do you think.
> >>>I doubt if anyone wants to discuss this dead horse since I beat it for weeks already. TOS #66 revised Captain America #1 (1941) and showed Maxon to be an agent impersonating the Skull. Whether this charade was sanctioned by the Fuhrer or the true Skull was not clearly identified. Incidentally, TOS#65 shows that Maxon had been eliminated and replaced by a Nazi double.
> The Skull had a reputation for ruthlessness and treachery before Cap #1 or the events in the retro TOS #65, #66. This was the reason Cap suspected the Maxon double Skull was an imposter. He did not have the fighting skills or prowess of the already legendary Red Skull. Jeanne Birch has revised her origin of the Red Skull somewhat to show that Johann Schmidt is the one true Skull with Maxon while recognizing that Maxon and the 1950's impersonator did assume the mantle on a few occasions. You may want to read my earlier posts on this subject from around a month ago. Batroc the Leaper
> ]

Whoa! No wonder this whole Red Skull thing confused me. It seems one is sure what the truth is because the truth is a tangled, treacherous path. Thank you Batroc for your help. Now, if you don't mind I'll be taking some asprin. This whole thing has given me a headache.

Host = nbre1-cs-74.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.93)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on July 24, 1997 at 16:46:17 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.
> May the roads you walk be forever light.
>
> TJB
Come back soon, man. We'll miss you!
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Falcon on July 24, 1997 at 19:10:06 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.

> May the roads you walk be forever light.

>
> TJB

TJ, Welcome Back! I know that may look stupid, but you probably won't be reading 'Hurry back' until you actually get back. Sorry about you're modem.

Falcon

Host = 88.st-louis-032.mo.dial-access.att.net (207.146.247.88)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 24, 1997 at 19:34:14 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.

> May the roads you walk be forever light.

>
> TJB

S'long TJ!! I hope your modem has a healing factor!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-22.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.54)

Posted by stonecold on July 24, 1997 at 22:38:59 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1327), posted by M on July 24, 1997 at 00:23:01 PDT

Now I now his avengers sucked but I loved his cap. If you read thr pre waid ones and his you
will like his stroy. I hate the cap now but I will love him in november.
Every liked him at first. I now the green blood sucked but that was the inker.
I will buy agent america. He had the best buckey I ever read and masterman.
He made a cool faclon. I only read avengers now in hr. Cap I can
not read at all. Plus I now cap 6 sucked but the first five were the best
of the herpes reborn. I now some of the art sucked but not the stroy ehich does
now

Host = pm2-0.wcoil.com (206.230.70.20)

Posted by Falcon on July 25, 1997 at 06:02:24 PDT
in reply to I like it (1344), posted by stonecold on July 24, 1997 at 22:38:59 PDT

> Now I now his avengers sucked but I loved his cap. If you read thr pre waid ones and his you
> will like his stroy. I hate the cap now but I will love him in november.
> Every liked him at first. I now the green blood sucked but that was the inker.
> I will buy agent america. He had the best buckey I ever read and masterman.
> He made a cool faclon. I only read avengers now in hr. Cap I can
> not read at all. Plus I now cap 6 sucked but the first five were the best
> of the herpes reborn. I now some of the art sucked but not the stroy ehich does
> now

The inker?? Unless the inker and the colorist are the same person, it's not the inker's fault. Besides, isn't Rob Liefeld the inker? I didn't read any of HR Cap but I think the green blood was supposed to be the result of the super-serum.

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by Falcon on July 25, 1997 at 08:41:33 PDT

Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 25, 1997 at 10:46:36 PDT

I had the first part of a two-part What If? that raised the question what would happen if Cap woke up in 1994. Well, somehow I lost that issue and don't remember what issue it was. If anybody does know, tell me.
Hey, wasn't their a What If? last year with the FF and they're captured by Dr. Doom after falling back to Earth. And what about the one where a Gamma Bomb was dropped on Japan at the end of WWII? Or where Spider-Man was a freaky monster with a son named Ben who goes to the Xavier School for Gifted Students at the end? Anybody remember these? Well I don't.

Host = nbre1-cs-36.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.55)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on July 25, 1997 at 15:13:45 PDT
in reply to I like it (1344), posted by stonecold on July 24, 1997 at 22:38:59 PDT

> Now I now his avengers sucked but I loved his cap. If you read thr pre waid ones and his you
> will like his stroy. I hate the cap now but I will love him in november.
> Every liked him at first. I now the green blood sucked but that was the inker.
> I will buy agent america. He had the best buckey I ever read and masterman.
> He made a cool faclon. I only read avengers now in hr. Cap I can
> not read at all. Plus I now cap 6 sucked but the first five were the best
> of the herpes reborn. I now some of the art sucked but not the stroy ehich does
> now

"Herpes Reborn"?

Tobin

Host = host522.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.10)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 25, 1997 at 17:34:53 PDT
in reply to Cap's H-D (1346), posted by Falcon on July 25, 1997 at 08:41:33 PDT

> Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?

> Falcon

Cap has a Harley in the HR Universe!! And he hasn't used it in battle yet!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-12.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.44)

Posted by Matt on July 25, 1997 at 17:34:54 PDT
in reply to Re: I like it (1345), posted by Falcon on July 25, 1997 at 06:02:24 PDT

> The inker?? Unless the inker and the colorist are the same person, it's not the inker's fault. Besides, isn't Rob Liefeld the inker? I didn't read any of HR Cap but I think the green blood was supposed to be the result of the super-serum.

> Falcon

Jon Sibal was the inker (maybe some other guys chipped in, I don't remember). I think the green blood was Liefeld's idea. I don't see why a colorist would color blood green without instruction from the writer (or plotter).

Cheers,

Matt

Host = 209.36.103.133 (209.36.103.133)

Posted by . on July 26, 1997 at 17:11:37 PDT
in reply to Re: I like it (1350), posted by Matt on July 25, 1997 at 17:34:54 PDT

>
> > The inker?? Unless the inker and the colorist are the same person, it's not the inker's fault. Besides, isn't Rob Liefeld the inker? I didn't read any of HR Cap but I think the green blood was supposed to be the result of the super-serum.

> > Falcon

> Jon Sibal was the inker (maybe some other guys chipped in, I don't remember). I think the green blood was Liefeld's idea. I don't see why a colorist would color blood green without instruction from the writer (or plotter).

> Cheers,

> Matt

Liefeld's art makes me want to kill myself.

Host = ppp-27.iosys.net (207.67.20.59)

Posted by M on July 26, 1997 at 17:13:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? Yep (1333), posted by Osborn on July 24, 1997 at 11:44:18 PDT

> > I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> > Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> > 'M'

> Just calm it man!!!! whew! have you taken your medication, look just stay calm. I know liefield gets to me too! He deserves one hell of a slap.

> Osborn

Thank you sir.
'M'

Host = ppp-27.iosys.net (207.67.20.59)

Posted by WAR on July 26, 1997 at 19:46:56 PDT
in reply to What If? (1347), posted by Tony Stark on July 25, 1997 at 10:46:36 PDT

> I had the first part of a two-part What If? that raised the question what would happen if Cap woke up in 1994. Well, somehow I lost that issue and don't remember what issue it was. If anybody does know, tell me.
> Hey, wasn't their a What If? last year with the FF and they're captured by Dr. Doom after falling back to Earth. And what about the one where a Gamma Bomb was dropped on Japan at the end of WWII? Or where Spider-Man was a freaky monster with a son named Ben who goes to the Xavier School for Gifted Students at the end? Anybody remember these? Well I don't.

I recall the gamma bomb on Japan issue, where America had to fight a army of Hulks. It was pretty cool

Host = 206.136.154.16 (206.136.154.16)

Posted by Herman Schultz on July 26, 1997 at 21:33:08 PDT
in reply to Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1311), posted by M on July 23, 1997 at 10:45:12 PDT

> I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> 'M'

I've hated his "art" ever since I first saw his work in an Atlantis Attacks Marvel annual, Amazing Spider-Man Annual #23 from 1989.

Herman Schultz

Host = pm7-ppp12.localnet.com (206.84.154.75)

Posted by Roscoe on July 27, 1997 at 08:09:55 PDT

I'm officially on vacation starting now, and will be out of communication for a while. Save your trivia bombs for when I return.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma3-01.ix.netcom.com (206.217.145.65)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 27, 1997 at 09:00:51 PDT
in reply to Goodbye! (1328), posted by TJ Burns on July 24, 1997 at 08:22:58 PDT

> Guys my modem has been destroyed, so I will be off-line for a little while. Goodbye and I will miss all of you a lot. It's been great talking to all of you. I'll miss you Batroc and Plaidy and Rob and David and Patriot and Albert and everyone else. I'll be back as soon as I can.

What a horrible thing to read upon returning from vacation!

Return soon!

-DM

Host = mg128-071.ricochet.net (204.179.128.71)

Posted by Grand Kaiser on July 27, 1997 at 17:03:56 PDT

I am making a Masters of Evil Page as a sequel to my Thunderbolts page, but I need a little info on a few of the more obscure Masters. Does anyone know anything about or have any pics of:

Puff Adder
Powerkeg
Executioner
Jack Hammer
Grey Gargoyle

Thanks, if you like you can preview the unfinished Masters page from a link on my Thunderbolts page.

• The Kaiser's Thunderbolts Page

Host = p47.Tundra.Wild.Net (208.207.88.77)

Posted by Patriot on July 27, 1997 at 19:45:36 PDT

I still have not been able to find a good wallpaper of Cap. I've gone several places but can't find anything big enough. I'm trying to create a Cap theme for my desktop which I currantly have set for 640. I even got a wave of the start to the Cap movie with Reb Brown to get some sound bites going. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

Patriot.

Host = fastppp551.idirect.com (207.136.99.43)

Posted by Maestro on July 27, 1997 at 20:27:55 PDT
in reply to Re: I like it (1351), posted by . on July 26, 1997 at 17:11:37 PDT

>
> >
> > > The inker?? Unless the inker and the colorist are the same person, it's not the inker's fault. Besides, isn't Rob Liefeld the inker? I didn't read any of HR Cap but I think the green blood was supposed to be the result of the super-serum.

> > > Falcon

> > Jon Sibal was the inker (maybe some other guys chipped in, I don't remember). I think the green blood was Liefeld's idea. I don't see why a colorist would color blood green without instruction from the writer (or plotter).

> > Cheers,

> > Matt

>
> Liefeld's art makes me want to kill myself.

Hey, I liked Liefield's Thor !!
I thought it was a breath of fresh air after having to put up with the Fabio version for months now. Liefield's Thor is closer to the Norse heritage than anything Simonson could come up with. Too bad he got thrashed by the Hulk though.

Maestro

Host = barpm6-36.caribsurf.com (205.214.193.100)

Posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 05:45:17 PDT
in reply to Re: I like it (1359), posted by Maestro on July 27, 1997 at 20:27:55 PDT

> >
> > >
> > > > The inker?? Unless the inker and the colorist are the same person, it's not the inker's fault. Besides, isn't Rob Liefeld the inker? I didn't read any of HR Cap but I think the green blood was supposed to be the result of the super-serum.

> > > > Falcon

> > > Jon Sibal was the inker (maybe some other guys chipped in, I don't remember). I think the green blood was Liefeld's idea. I don't see why a colorist would color blood green without instruction from the writer (or plotter).

> > > Cheers,

> > > Matt

> >
> > Liefeld's art makes me want to kill myself.

> Hey, I liked Liefield's Thor !!
> I thought it was a breath of fresh air after having to put up with the Fabio version for months now. Liefield's Thor is closer to the Norse heritage than anything Simonson could come up with. Too bad he got thrashed by the Hulk though.

> Maestro

Fabio version?

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)

Posted by reckless abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:26:35 PDT
in reply to My wallpaper question (1358), posted by Patriot on July 27, 1997 at 19:45:36 PDT

> I still have not been able to find a good wallpaper of Cap. I've gone several places but can't find anything big enough. I'm trying to create a Cap theme for my desktop which I currantly have set for 640. I even got a wave of the start to the Cap movie with Reb Brown to get some sound bites going. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

> Patriot.

I've got a .wav of the CA cartoon theme if you'd like it. Give me an E and I'll send it to you. Also, AOL <> used to have a great Zeck wallpaper of Cap, but I don't know if they still do. <> Let me know when you've got your desktop theme done! I'd like to try it.

Reckless

Host = pm265-29.dialip.mich.net (198.110.68.232)

Posted by reckless abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:28:45 PDT
in reply to Re: My wallpaper question (1361), posted by reckless abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:26:35 PDT

> > I still have not been able to find a good wallpaper of Cap. I've gone several places but can't find anything big enough. I'm trying to create a Cap theme for my desktop which I currantly have set for 640. I even got a wave of the start to the Cap movie with Reb Brown to get some sound bites going. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

> > Patriot.

> I've got a .wav of the CA cartoon theme if you'd like it. Give me an E and I'll send it to you. Also, AOL (ack!) used to have a great Zeck wallpaper of Cap, but I don't know if they still do. (dumped 'em months ago.) Let me know when you've got your desktop theme done! I'd like to try it.

> Reckless

Host = pm265-29.dialip.mich.net (198.110.68.232)

Posted by reckless abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:37:27 PDT
in reply to Re: I like it (1348), posted by Tobin Kennedy on July 25, 1997 at 15:13:45 PDT

>
> > Now I now his avengers sucked but I loved his cap. If you read thr pre waid ones and his you
> > will like his stroy. I hate the cap now but I will love him in november.
> > Every liked him at first. I now the green blood sucked but that was the inker.
> > I will buy agent america. He had the best buckey I ever read and masterman.
> > He made a cool faclon. I only read avengers now in hr. Cap I can
> > not read at all. Plus I now cap 6 sucked but the first five were the best
> > of the herpes reborn. I now some of the art sucked but not the stroy ehich does
> > now

> "Herpes Reborn"?

> Tobin
lern two spel end youse sum punktwo-ashun

reckless

Host = pm265-29.dialip.mich.net (198.110.68.232)

Posted by Reckless Abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:46:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1354), posted by Herman Schultz on July 26, 1997 at 21:33:08 PDT

> > I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> > Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> > 'M'

> I've hated his "art" ever since I first saw his work in an Atlantis Attacks Marvel annual, Amazing Spider-Man Annual #23 from 1989.

> Herman Schultz

Okay, and this will be my only comment on the matter, besides the fact that the initial promotional poster of Cap looked like a barrel with a doorknob screwed on top (off center, yet) and besides the fact that he for some inexplicable reason decided to put Wonder Womans bustier on Cap's forehead, and besides the fact that all the characters in the book have apparantly taken Henry Pym's size changing serum because they change heights between panels, and besides the fact that all characters in the book have identical features (put an eye patch on 'im, he's Nick Fury, make 'im black, he's the Falcon, and why did we decide the Falcon was going to be BALD, anyway?) and besides the fact that a consistant size for Cap's shield doesn't even stay the same size and people have little pin feet that couldn't support their huge torsos and waists that any decent supervillain would snap like a twig, no, I don't think he's that bad.

Reckless Abandon
"Poke him with a fork. He's done."

Host = pm265-29.dialip.mich.net (198.110.68.232)

Posted by Reckless Abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:51:43 PDT

I am really pleased to have found your message board. I've been collecting Cap since 1974. Has anyone else noticed that none of the issues of HR have dared to print a lettercol for the past year. In fact, I can't tell you the last time I saw a lettercol in any Marvel book since THUNDERBOLTS. I guess you can only print "Hey Marvel, you suck!" so many times.

Reckless

Host = pm265-29.dialip.mich.net (198.110.68.232)

Posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 08:23:23 PDT
in reply to Re: Anyone else hate Liefeld's art? (1364), posted by Reckless Abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:46:46 PDT

> > > I was just wodering if anybody else hated Rob Liefeld's art work. He can't draw feet. He can't draw hands. As my friend says "He gives everybody's face weird scars" or as I call them 'un-needed detail lines'. The women are waaaay to skinny (I'm talkin' a five or six inch waist) and everybody's clothes are too tight when they're in there civillian get. What the hell?!? How did he get a job at one of the biggest comic companies around? He sucks! (And to those of you who like this waste of a classic and say to me "Don't talk. You couldn't draw better!" Every human being I've encounter says I can. So there.)
> > > Liefeld opposers!!! Rally behind me!!!!!
> > > 'M'

> > I've hated his "art" ever since I first saw his work in an Atlantis Attacks Marvel annual, Amazing Spider-Man Annual #23 from 1989.

> > Herman Schultz

> Okay, and this will be my only comment on the matter, besides the fact that the initial promotional poster of Cap looked like a barrel with a doorknob screwed on top (off center, yet) and besides the fact that he for some inexplicable reason decided to put Wonder Womans bustier on Cap's forehead, and besides the fact that all the characters in the book have apparantly taken Henry Pym's size changing serum because they change heights between panels, and besides the fact that all characters in the book have identical features (put an eye patch on 'im, he's Nick Fury, make 'im black, he's the Falcon, and why did we decide the Falcon was going to be BALD, anyway?) and besides the fact that a consistant size for Cap's shield doesn't even stay the same size and people have little pin feet that couldn't support their huge torsos and waists that any decent supervillain would snap like a twig, no, I don't think he's that bad.

> Reckless Abandon
> "Poke him with a fork. He's done."

For that matter why was it decided that Hellcat would resemble Feral from X-Force and that she would have no nose?

Falcon

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Posted by Rob on July 28, 1997 at 09:07:28 PDT
in reply to Going going gone (1355), posted by Roscoe on July 27, 1997 at 08:09:55 PDT

> I'm officially on vacation starting now, and will be out of communication for a while. Save your trivia bombs for when I return.

> -Roscoe

See you later, Roscoe. Let us know when you get back!

Rob

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 28, 1997 at 11:51:15 PDT
in reply to Let's Rap With Cap (1365), posted by Reckless Abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:51:43 PDT

> I guess you can only print "Hey Marvel, you suck!" so many times.

Nah. A little 'cut and paste', and you can write it almost endlessly!

-DM

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Posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 13:10:22 PDT

Does anyone read this title? Just asking because I noticed a character that's obviously heavily based on Cap appearing on one of the issues. Whether it's meant as some sort of parody, satire, tribute or just a blatant rip-off, I couldn't guess because I didn't read the comic. Anyway, the character's name is Captain Kurtz (or was it Curtz?).

Falcon

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Posted by Supreme on July 28, 1997 at 13:35:01 PDT

I have just come up with the idea for a great crossover, that
would spill into every single comic book.

It would be called " Celestial Impact"

The main gist of the thing is this.

Because of all the reality bending exploits of recent times, I.E.
AOA, ONSLAUGHT, HEROES REBORN, ETC, The celestials
become mightily pissed off at the people of earth.
They believe that reality should be kept constant, and that all of
the multiverse should be kept seperate and have constant
continuity.
They blame the heroes of earth for damaging the continuity of all
existince, and decide to wipe out all creation that has ever
occured on planet earth, and start from scratch.
However, they dont count on the resistence of all the earths
heroes, who get tipped of about the plan by Uatu, who feels they
have a right to defend themselves and their actions to the
Celestials.
Uatu gets wipped out for his troubles, as the celestials dont
condone his interfernce in the matter.
This then causes the rest of the watchers, to finally abandon thier
" no interference policy", and they then get involved in the
conflict also.
They believe that destroying a watcher is out of the celestials
durisdiction/
What follows is an all out war between the celestials and the
watchers, with the earths fate hanging in the balance.
While all this is going on, the heroes on earth are frantically trying
to come up with a way of avoiding being wiped out of existence.
Pretty soon the whole world finds out that their existence is being
threatened, and all out panic erupts on earth, giving the heroes
another problem to deal with.

A whole lot of stuff happens in between. The watchers decide
that the conflict with the celestials will prove to costly and decide
to withdraw.
That problem out of the way, the celestials finally get around to
wiping out current existence and replacing it with new.
However, before they withdrew, the watchers left earths heroes
with a gift. The ability to survive the ahnialation of reality.
So now all the heroes are living in this new reality, and they are
the only ones left who can get things back the way they were.

Eventually it will be Reed Richards who saves the day, by
showing the celestials that the same mistakes will be made in any
reality, no matter how many times you recreate it. Chaos is a
force of nature, an no amount of restarts is going to subdue it.
Unable to argue, or see fault with this arguement, the celestials
see no alternative than to put things back the way they were.

So what do you all think.

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Posted by Patriot on July 28, 1997 at 15:20:33 PDT
in reply to Re: Let's Rap With Cap (1368), posted by David Medinnus on July 28, 1997 at 11:51:15 PDT

> > I guess you can only print "Hey Marvel, you suck!" so many times.

> Nah. A little 'cut and paste', and you can write it almost endlessly!

> -DM

I don't think you can put the blame on Marvel's shoulder this time. They only farmed out the titles. FF and Iron Man did well by this change over. However, a certain writer named Rob made a Mockery of Cap and Avengers. Maybe the above sentence should have a different name between "Hey" and "you suck!".

Patriot.

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Posted by Patriot on July 28, 1997 at 15:36:38 PDT
in reply to Re: My wallpaper question (1362), posted by reckless abandon on July 28, 1997 at 07:28:45 PDT

> > > I still have not been able to find a good wallpaper of Cap. I've gone several places but can't find anything big enough. I'm trying to create a Cap theme for my desktop which I currantly have set for 640. I even got a wave of the start to the Cap movie with Reb Brown to get some sound bites going. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

> > > Patriot.

> > I've got a .wav of the CA cartoon theme if you'd like it. Give me an E and I'll send it to you. Also, AOL (ack!) used to have a great Zeck wallpaper of Cap, but I don't know if they still do. (dumped 'em months ago.) Let me know when you've got your desktop theme done! I'd like to try it.

> > Reckless

Thanks, but I've got the cartoon theme as well. I found that easier to get then the live action one. I'm not really a Zeck fan either.

Patriot.

Host = fastppp78.idirect.com (207.136.97.78)

Posted by Supreme on July 28, 1997 at 16:55:51 PDT

In connection with my earlier post about Celestial Impact.
I think that Apocolypse should play a main part in this crossover.
After all he did steal Celestial technology to get where he is today.

During Celestial Impact Apocolypse will find out that he did not
in fact steal the technology. Instead, he will discover it was his all
along.
It will turn out that Apocolypse is really the envoy of the
Celestials, and that he was put on earth to monitor it for the
Celestials.
All his memeories, and his origin were fake. Implanted in him by
the Celestials in order to give him a cover story in case his
intentions were ever questioned.
All this time the Celestials have been monitoring earths continued
existance through Apocolypse and he didnt even know it. It will
also be discovered that Apocolypses fascination with the
continued evolution of homo superier was planted by the
celestials also, who were striving to see the perfect race blossom
on earth.
It turns out that it was Apocolypses own actions during the AOA,
that prompted the Celestials to review earth under closer
inspection. Although they programmed him to help the
evolutionary proccess, they never expected him to do it in such
an unnatural way.
They never anticipated that their own agent would turn into a
cruel and twisted despot, that had no concern for the stability of
reality.
Apacolypse will go through a hum dinger of an Identity crisis. He
will then find out that the celestials are going to destroy him
because of his failure to do what he was planted to do.
When reality is wiped out and reformed again, Apocolypse will
not return.
But is that the last we will see of this Rogue Celestial????

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Posted by Steven O'Connell on July 28, 1997 at 17:04:33 PDT

Hey Cap fans...

I need some info on the Secret Empire.

Anyone have some out there?

Thanks,

SteveO

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Posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 17:27:22 PDT
in reply to Re: My wallpaper question (1372), posted by Patriot on July 28, 1997 at 15:36:38 PDT

>
> > > > I still have not been able to find a good wallpaper of Cap. I've gone several places but can't find anything big enough. I'm trying to create a Cap theme for my desktop which I currantly have set for 640. I even got a wave of the start to the Cap movie with Reb Brown to get some sound bites going. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

> > > > Patriot.

> > > I've got a .wav of the CA cartoon theme if you'd like it. Give me an E and I'll send it to you. Also, AOL (ack!) used to have a great Zeck wallpaper of Cap, but I don't know if they still do. (dumped 'em months ago.) Let me know when you've got your desktop theme done! I'd like to try it.

> > > Reckless

> Thanks, but I've got the cartoon theme as well. I found that easier to get then the live action one. I'm not really a Zeck fan either.

> Patriot.

Hey Patriot,
How about a collage of Cap's history?

Falcon

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Posted by Patriot on July 28, 1997 at 17:45:23 PDT
in reply to Secret Empire (1374), posted by Steven O'Connell on July 28, 1997 at 17:04:33 PDT

> Hey Cap fans...

> I need some info on the Secret Empire.

> Anyone have some out there?

> Thanks,

> SteveO

The Secret Empire have been discribed best by Hawkeye as "Shriners crossed with Hydra". They are an ultra secret organization funded by totally legit corporations that are unaware of their illegal activities. They are so secret that they refer to each other as a number instead of their real names. The difference between them and Hydra or AIM is that they have their hands in everything. They concern themselves from organized crime (such as the Kingpin's assets) to world domination (replacing the president of the United States) and everything in between. They were once ruled by a "council of ten", a democratic voting figure heads that controlled this masive organization. However, Viper disolved the council of ten when she took over the dying organization and turned it into a research group for terrorists. They would develop weapons of destruction including mutated animals that would kill on command. Even this business was shut down by Hawkeye and they haven't been heard from since.
The difference in the way that writers at Marvel use the Secret Empire is unique as well. Usually when using Hydra and AIM, the heroes are thinking "What are Hydra and AIM up to?". When the SE is involved, they are usually asking "Who could be behind this scheme?" They usually aren't discovered till the last minute. They're so secretive and choosy about their membership, that it's hard to find out what disasters they have or haven't planned.

Hope this helps.

Patriot.
PS: If you liked my Liberty Legion info, e-mail me because I've remebered some things I left out.

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Posted by stonecold on July 28, 1997 at 18:31:59 PDT

I cannot wait for this comic. Has anyone read judgment say and supreme I love them both. I also canot wait for the coven and kaboom. Plus I canotnot what for waids cap. Is captain america 8-11 good. Why is fury bad.

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Posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 18:40:35 PDT
in reply to agent america I canot wait (1377), posted by stonecold on July 28, 1997 at 18:31:59 PDT

> I cannot wait for this comic. Has anyone read judgment say and supreme I love them both. I also canot wait for the coven and kaboom. Plus I canotnot what for waids cap. Is captain america 8-11 good. Why is fury bad.

I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

Falcon

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Posted by Patriot on July 28, 1997 at 20:03:14 PDT
in reply to Re: My wallpaper question (1375), posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 17:27:22 PDT

>
> >
> > > > > I still have not been able to find a good wallpaper of Cap. I've gone several places but can't find anything big enough. I'm trying to create a Cap theme for my desktop which I currantly have set for 640. I even got a wave of the start to the Cap movie with Reb Brown to get some sound bites going. If anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

> > > > > Patriot.

> > > > I've got a .wav of the CA cartoon theme if you'd like it. Give me an E and I'll send it to you. Also, AOL (ack!) used to have a great Zeck wallpaper of Cap, but I don't know if they still do. (dumped 'em months ago.) Let me know when you've got your desktop theme done! I'd like to try it.

> > > > Reckless

> > Thanks, but I've got the cartoon theme as well. I found that easier to get then the live action one. I'm not really a Zeck fan either.

> > Patriot.

>
> Hey Patriot,
> How about a collage of Cap's history?

> Falcon

I'm interested. e-mail me more.

A Patriot on pins and needles.

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Posted by stonecold on July 28, 1997 at 20:08:32 PDT
in reply to Re: agent america I canot wait (1378), posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 18:40:35 PDT

> > I cannot wait for this comic. Has anyone read judgment say and supreme I love them both. I also canot wait for the coven and kaboom. Plus I canotnot what for waids cap. Is captain america 8-11 good. Why is fury bad.

> I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

> Falcon

No it has not.

Host = pm7-17.wcoil.com (206.230.70.238)

Posted by Matt on July 28, 1997 at 21:09:31 PDT
in reply to Re: agent america I canot wait (1380), posted by stonecold on July 28, 1997 at 20:08:32 PDT

> > > I cannot wait for this comic. Has anyone read judgment say and supreme I love them both. I also canot wait for the coven and kaboom. Plus I canotnot what for waids cap. Is captain america 8-11 good. Why is fury bad.

> > I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

> > Falcon

> No it has not.

Is this book actually coming out? I know Marvel issued a cease and desist order (although I think they're on shaky ground).

Cheers,

Matt

Host = 209.36.103.133 (209.36.103.133)

Posted by stonecold on July 28, 1997 at 21:45:05 PDT
in reply to Re: agent america I canot wait (1381), posted by Matt on July 28, 1997 at 21:09:31 PDT

>
> > > > I cannot wait for this comic. Has anyone read judgment say and supreme I love them both. I also canot wait for the coven and kaboom. Plus I canotnot what for waids cap. Is captain america 8-11 good. Why is fury bad.

> > > I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

> > > Falcon

> > No it has not.

> Is this book actually coming out? I know Marvel issued a cease and desist order (although I think they're on shaky ground).

> Cheers,

> Matt

Yes it is the preveiw has came out and he has already been in judgment day. It will be on;y 3 issue the first one will comeout wensday I will put a reveiw up. You should read judgment day. Has cap 11 cameout yet

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Posted by Rob on July 29, 1997 at 00:27:42 PDT

Does anyone have a checklist of all of Mike Zeck's published work? He has done stuff for so many different comics, it would be good to have a checklist of it. Plus he's done covers for so many comics that he didn't draw the insides to. I ask this here since Zeck was one of Cap's greatest artists. If nobody knows the answer, maybe I will post (one of these days) the Zeck stuff that I have and people can add their own Zeck holding to the list. That way, we can work on compiling a Zeck checklist if none exists already.

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Posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 06:32:04 PDT
in reply to Mike Zeck Checklist Wanted (1383), posted by Rob on July 29, 1997 at 00:27:42 PDT

> Does anyone have a checklist of all of Mike Zeck's published work? He has done stuff for so many different comics, it would be good to have a checklist of it. Plus he's done covers for so many comics that he didn't draw the insides to. I ask this here since Zeck was one of Cap's greatest artists. If nobody knows the answer, maybe I will post (one of these days) the Zeck stuff that I have and people can add their own Zeck holding to the list. That way, we can work on compiling a Zeck checklist if none exists already.

Besides Cap, Punisher and Secret Wars, he did a series of covers for DC's Terminator series; he could still be doing them for all I know.

Falcon

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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 29, 1997 at 06:44:55 PDT
in reply to Re: agent america I canot wait (1382), posted by stonecold on July 28, 1997 at 21:45:05 PDT

> >
> > > > > I cannot wait for this comic. Has anyone read judgment say and supreme I love them both. I also canot wait for the coven and kaboom. Plus I canotnot what for waids cap. Is captain america 8-11 good. Why is fury bad.

> > > > I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

> > > > Falcon

> > > No it has not.

> > Is this book actually coming out? I know Marvel issued a cease and desist order (although I think they're on shaky ground).

> > Cheers,

> > Matt

> Yes it is the preveiw has came out and he has already been in judgment day. It will be on;y 3 issue the first one will comeout wensday I will put a reveiw up. You should read judgment day. Has cap 11 cameout yet

I believe that Agent America is kaput for the time being. Robby has been ordered to hole off releasing this book..... aw shucks...*snicker*

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)

Posted by Batroc on July 29, 1997 at 12:55:35 PDT
in reply to Secret Empire (1374), posted by Steven O'Connell on July 28, 1997 at 17:04:33 PDT

> Hey Cap fans...
> I need some info on the Secret Empire.
> Anyone have some out there?
> Thanks,
> SteveO
>>>As a follow-up to Patriot, the Secret Empire is an off-shoot of Hydra similar to AIM except they appear to be cloaked much more in secrecy. They originally had run ins with the Hulk and later Gabe Jones of Shield. In Cap 169-175
Gabe Jones tried to infiltrate the inner council as he had successfully done before, but he was not successful, perhaps because the organization was run by a high ranking, and yet unidentified, government official. Boomerang and the original Moonstone have been past operatives of the Secret Empire.
As Patriot noted, they are now led by the Viper formerly Madame Hydra. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 29, 1997 at 13:09:27 PDT
in reply to Cap's H-D (1346), posted by Falcon on July 25, 1997 at 08:41:33 PDT

> Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?
> Falcon
>>>Old Winghead purchased a bike originally in Cap #128, no brand was given, but we can assume it is an AMERICAN model. He used this until about issue #144. He also used a motorcycle in WWII as depicted in Cap #237. He was riding on a motorcycle in his last adventure with Bucky Barnes and that booby trapped rocket.
Cap received a new red, white, and blue bike in Cap #259 and rode it for many adventures. He has also used an Avengers sky sled. Batroc the Leaper

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 29, 1997 at 13:44:16 PDT
in reply to Re: agent america I canot wait (1378), posted by Falcon on July 28, 1997 at 18:40:35 PDT

> I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

Yep, Liefield has licensed the name from the Kirby estate, and is planning on releasing it under that name (as far as I know).

Of course, it'll be late....but this is Liefield, after all... :)

-DM

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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 29, 1997 at 13:47:55 PDT
in reply to Re: Agent America == Fighting American (1388), posted by David Medinnus on July 29, 1997 at 13:44:16 PDT

>

> > I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

> Yep, Liefield has licensed the name from the Kirby estate, and is planning on releasing it under that name (as far as I know).

> Of course, it'll be late....but this is Liefield, after all... :)

> -DM

I thought that Liefeld was going to use Fighting American as a supporting character in the *ahem* very original Agent American series... guess he will just get out that eraser again and change that costume one more time....over the original Captain America stories that he did 4 months ago. Does he really think that he will make any money off of this trash????

Ned

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)

Posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 14:03:11 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap's H-D (1387), posted by Batroc on July 29, 1997 at 13:09:27 PDT

> > Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?
> > Falcon
> >>>Old Winghead purchased a bike originally in Cap #128, no brand was given, but we can assume it is an AMERICAN model. He used this until about issue #144. He also used a motorcycle in WWII as depicted in Cap #237. He was riding on a motorcycle in his last adventure with Bucky Barnes and that booby trapped rocket.
> Cap received a new red, white, and blue bike in Cap #259 and rode it for many adventures. He has also used an Avengers sky sled. Batroc the Leaper

OHMU says it's an H-D, later modified by (I think) S.H.I.E.L.D. Is that the one he has in #259?

Falcon

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Posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 14:09:42 PDT
in reply to Re: Agent America == Fighting American (1389), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 29, 1997 at 13:47:55 PDT

> >

> > > I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

> > Yep, Liefield has licensed the name from the Kirby estate, and is planning on releasing it under that name (as far as I know).

> > Of course, it'll be late....but this is Liefield, after all... :)

> > -DM

> I thought that Liefeld was going to use Fighting American as a supporting character in the *ahem* very original Agent American series... guess he will just get out that eraser again and change that costume one more time....over the original Captain America stories that he did 4 months ago. Does he really think that he will make any money off of this trash????

> Ned

Did anyone see any promos for Liefeld's RE-GEX? There's a guy who looks suspiciously like Sabretooth, another who looks like Boom-Boom (from X-Force), yet another who resembles Magik (a lot) and finally someone who looks vaguely like Abe Lincoln.

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 29, 1997 at 14:16:48 PDT
in reply to Re: Agent America == Fighting American (1391), posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 14:09:42 PDT

> > >

>
> > > > I thought Agent America assumed the name of Kirby's Fighting American.

>
> > > Yep, Liefield has licensed the name from the Kirby estate, and is planning on releasing it under that name (as far as I know).

>
> > > Of course, it'll be late....but this is Liefield, after all... :)

> > > -DM

> > I thought that Liefeld was going to use Fighting American as a supporting character in the *ahem* very original Agent American series... guess he will just get out that eraser again and change that costume one more time....over the original Captain America stories that he did 4 months ago. Does he really think that he will make any money off of this trash????

> > Ned

> Did anyone see any promos for Liefeld's RE-GEX? There's a guy who looks suspiciously like Sabretooth, another who looks like Boom-Boom (from X-Force), yet another who resembles Magik (a lot) and finally someone who looks vaguely like Abe Lincoln.

> Falcon

You know what I heard on the Thor board? I hear Thor and Loki is gonna be in Liefield's Avengers rip-off book except Thor has red hair and Loki has a moustache!!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-20.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.52)

Posted by Steven O'Connell on July 29, 1997 at 14:54:22 PDT
in reply to Re: Mike Zeck Checklist Wanted (1384), posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 06:32:04 PDT

> > Does anyone have a checklist of all of Mike Zeck's published work? He has done stuff for so many different comics, it would be good to have a checklist of it. Plus he's done covers for so many comics that he didn't draw the insides to. I ask this here since Zeck was one of Cap's greatest artists. If nobody knows the answer, maybe I will post (one of these days) the Zeck stuff that I have and people can add their own Zeck holding to the list. That way, we can work on compiling a Zeck checklist if none exists already.

>
> Besides Cap, Punisher and Secret Wars, he did a series of covers for DC's Terminator series; he could still be doing them for all I know.

> Falcon

Host = ts1-9.thecore.com (206.136.149.28)

Posted by Steven O'Connell on July 29, 1997 at 14:55:33 PDT
in reply to Re: Mike Zeck Checklist Wanted (1393), posted by Steven O'Connell on July 29, 1997 at 14:54:22 PDT

> »
> >
> > Besides Cap, Punisher and Secret Wars, he did a series of covers for DC's Terminator series; he could still be doing them for all I know.

> > Falcon

He did covers for Deathstroke: the Terminator...close enough, I guess.

Give Falcon a see-gar!

Host = ts1-9.thecore.com (206.136.149.28)

Posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 18:05:03 PDT
in reply to Re: Agent America == Fighting American (1392), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 29, 1997 at 14:16:48 PDT

> You know what I heard on the Thor board? I hear Thor and Loki is gonna be in Liefield's Avengers rip-off book except Thor has red hair and Loki has a moustache!!!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Ripping off the Avengers is bad but unfortunately (in regards to Liefeld) Thor and Loki are pretty much public domain. Marvel can't say anything about someone else using the character of Thor. Cases in point: Thundergod and Jack Kirby's 4th world, in which the Thor and Odin have been appearing.

Falcon

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Posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 18:06:48 PDT
in reply to Re: Mike Zeck Checklist Wanted (1394), posted by Steven O'Connell on July 29, 1997 at 14:55:33 PDT

> > »
> > >
> > > Besides Cap, Punisher and Secret Wars, he did a series of covers for DC's Terminator series; he could still be doing them for all I know.

> > > Falcon

> He did covers for Deathstroke: the Terminator...close enough, I guess.

> Give Falcon a see-gar!

Oh yeah... forgot the Deathstroke part; thanks for the correction, Steve!

Falcon

Host = 15.new-york-007.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.38.15)

Posted by Batroc on July 29, 1997 at 20:03:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap's H-D (1390), posted by Falcon on July 29, 1997 at 14:03:11 PDT

> > > Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?
> > > Falcon
> > >>>Old Winghead purchased a bike originally in Cap #128, no brand was given, but we can assume it is an AMERICAN model. He used this until about issue #144. He also used a motorcycle in WWII as depicted in Cap #237. He was riding on a motorcycle in his last adventure with Bucky Barnes and that booby trapped rocket.
> > Cap received a new red, white, and blue bike in Cap #259 and rode it for many adventures. He has also used an Avengers sky sled. Batroc the Leaper
»
> OHMU says it's an H-D, later modified by (I think) S.H.I.E.L.D. Is that the one he has in #259?
> Falcon
>>The bike from #259 was a gift from John Coulson. He was a young man that Cap helped out with a family dispute with his father. John also watched Cap defeat Dr. Ock in the issue.
John Coulson wears a Harley Davidson shirt, so it is easy to believe that this custom amde bike he gives Cap is a Harley. I don't recall if this bike was modified by SHIELD or anyone else. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Falcon on July 30, 1997 at 05:48:50 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap's H-D (1397), posted by Batroc on July 29, 1997 at 20:03:00 PDT

> > > > Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?
> > > > Falcon
> > > >>>Old Winghead purchased a bike originally in Cap #128, no brand was given, but we can assume it is an AMERICAN model. He used this until about issue #144. He also used a motorcycle in WWII as depicted in Cap #237. He was riding on a motorcycle in his last adventure with Bucky Barnes and that booby trapped rocket.
> > > Cap received a new red, white, and blue bike in Cap #259 and rode it for many adventures. He has also used an Avengers sky sled. Batroc the Leaper
> »
> > OHMU says it's an H-D, later modified by (I think) S.H.I.E.L.D. Is that the one he has in #259?
> > Falcon
> >>The bike from #259 was a gift from John Coulson. He was a young man that Cap helped out with a family dispute with his father. John also watched Cap defeat Dr. Ock in the issue.
> John Coulson wears a Harley Davidson shirt, so it is easy to believe that this custom amde bike he gives Cap is a Harley. I don't recall if this bike was modified by SHIELD or anyone else. Batroc

Yeah, then that's the Harley; at least that's what OHMU says it is. It also says SHIELD modified thought it doesn't say when. Anybody know? Oh yeah, does Cap still have his van?

Falcon

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Posted by COPPERFACE on July 30, 1997 at 11:13:13 PDT

Re: Some of the previous postings about Cap's van, bike and all, I thought It was a lot of fun when, in the pre-HR CAP run, "The Captain," Demolition Man, The Falcon, and Nomad were all cruising around the country fighting crime. The issues were written by the late, great Mr. Gruenwald, who also supervised OHMU. Mark used his knowledge of Cap obscuria wisely, I felt. He incorperated a lot of the cool tech features of the van (bunk beds, computer uplink) into the adventures.

Remember when the van got stuck in a ravine and D-Man tossed it up to the road? That was a cool moment, to be sure, and it underscored the rivalries between Cap's various sidekicks: Even when Steve was not officially Captain America, there was still jelousy amongst the hangers on. It truly is an honor to serve with the one, true cap.

Still, I think the "driving around in a van" thing seemed a little gay to some readers. Four pumped up musclemen in tights sleeping in a little red van. Wierd. The idea was dropped when cap got his old gig back and had to face off against the Serpents.

By the way, I think the Serpent Society is a much cooler element than
the (yuck) Sons of the Serpent.

And, further, Three cheers for Waid and Garney. Saw Waid at the San Diego con wearing a cool cap-style polo shrt. Guy's lost a ton of weight and seems up to the Cap challenge again.

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Posted by COPPERFACE on July 30, 1997 at 11:13:33 PDT

Re: Some of the previous postings about Cap's van, bike and all, I thought It was a lot of fun when, in the pre-HR CAP run, "The Captain," Demolition Man, The Falcon, and Nomad were all cruising around the country fighting crime. The issues were written by the late, great Mr. Gruenwald, who also supervised OHMU. Mark used his knowledge of Cap obscuria wisely, I felt. He incorperated a lot of the cool tech features of the van (bunk beds, computer uplink) into the adventures.

Remember when the van got stuck in a ravine and D-Man tossed it up to the road? That was a cool moment, to be sure, and it underscored the rivalries between Cap's various sidekicks: Even when Steve was not officially Captain America, there was still jelousy amongst the hangers on. It truly is an honor to serve with the one, true cap.

Still, I think the "driving around in a van" thing seemed a little gay to some readers. Four pumped up musclemen in tights sleeping in a little red van. Wierd. The idea was dropped when cap got his old gig back and had to face off against the Serpents.

By the way, I think the Serpent Society is a much cooler element than
the (yuck) Sons of the Serpent.

And, further, Three cheers for Waid and Garney. Saw Waid at the San Diego con wearing a cool cap-style polo shrt. Guy's lost a ton of weight and seems up to the Cap challenge again.

Host = 1Cust40.max41.los-angeles.ca.ms.uu.net (153.34.90.168)

Posted by Batroc on July 30, 1997 at 18:05:58 PDT

Cap is depicted parachuting into battle with a submachine ablazing in All-Select Comics #1 (1943).
Dave, you can quit looking at the All-Winners covers now. The Torch is flying his blazizng body through the Nazi's and Namor is uprooting a drawbridge to the Nazi's castle.
I told you a long time ago, I AIN'T CRAZY!! It seems there were Timely hero teamups in All-Select, All-Winners, and Daring. Ze Lepair

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Posted by Fixer on July 30, 1997 at 19:11:34 PDT

Did Cap 11 come out today?

It was on the NCRL but it was nowhere to be found at my shop.

What gives?

--Fixer
wants his Cap

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Posted by Patriot on July 30, 1997 at 19:16:18 PDT
in reply to Cap 11 (1402), posted by Fixer on July 30, 1997 at 19:11:34 PDT

> Did Cap 11 come out today?

> It was on the NCRL but it was nowhere to be found at my shop.

> What gives?

> --Fixer
> wants his Cap

I want my Cap too but it didn't come out. It's been delayed a week.

A Patriot without a comic.

Host = fastppp54.idirect.com (207.136.97.54)

Posted by Patriot on July 30, 1997 at 19:43:26 PDT

I'll be away till August 10th on vacation. Just so you all didn't think I wandered off to the Brother Voodoo board.
I'm headed to the Canadian Maritimes. I'll let you guys know if I see Alpha Flight.

Patriot

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Posted by Hogun2 on July 31, 1997 at 06:34:58 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap's H-D (1349), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 25, 1997 at 17:34:53 PDT

> > Does Cap have his Harley Davidson in the HRverse and has he ever used it in combat?

> > Falcon

> Cap has a Harley in the HR Universe!! And he hasn't used it in battle yet!!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

In what issue was Cap's Harley (in HR) ?

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 31, 1997 at 09:52:16 PDT
in reply to I found it! Attn Rob and Dave Medinnus (1401), posted by Batroc on July 30, 1997 at 18:05:58 PDT

> I told you a long time ago, I AIN'T CRAZY!!

I fail to see how you being correct has ANTHING to do with you being (or not being) crazy... :)

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Charles-y on July 31, 1997 at 10:58:11 PDT

in the heros reborn how did cap get that new symbol there in the comic he didn't put it there how did it get there just wondering?

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Posted by Rob on July 31, 1997 at 13:56:49 PDT
in reply to I found it! Attn Rob and Dave Medinnus (1401), posted by Batroc on July 30, 1997 at 18:05:58 PDT

> Cap is depicted parachuting into battle with a submachine ablazing in All-Select Comics #1 (1943).
> Dave, you can quit looking at the All-Winners covers now. The Torch is flying his blazizng body through the Nazi's and Namor is uprooting a drawbridge to the Nazi's castle.
> I told you a long time ago, I AIN'T CRAZY!! It seems there were Timely hero teamups in All-Select, All-Winners, and Daring. Ze Lepair

Hey, i thought I mentioned All-Select #1 to you before....and you dismissed my claims. Also, I thought the heroes teamed up on the covers only, not on the insides? (This was similar to the DC policy of the 1940s where they had Superman & Batman together on the covers of World's Finest, but in separate stories inside, same with Comic Cavalcade, etc.)

Rob

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Posted by Jamie on July 31, 1997 at 17:48:36 PDT

Fanboys,

Hey, long time no see ! Still holding your grudge against me ?
Well, I won't use the word "sucks" again, okay ? Oops, just did !

Okay, see ya !

Jamie

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Falcon on July 31, 1997 at 18:07:39 PDT
in reply to I'm back ! (1409), posted by Jamie on July 31, 1997 at 17:48:36 PDT

> Fanboys,

> Hey, long time no see ! Still holding your grudge against me ?
> Well, I won't use the word "sucks" again, okay ? Oops, just did !

> Okay, see ya !

> Jamie

Jamie,
Hey, you can use the word 'sucks' as often as you like. It's been used an awful lot in your absence, mostly as in "Rob Liefeld sucks".

Falcon

Host = 164.middletown-005.va.dial-access.att.net (207.116.100.164)

Posted by Jamie on July 31, 1997 at 18:16:14 PDT
in reply to Re: I'm back ! (1410), posted by Falcon on July 31, 1997 at 18:07:39 PDT

Jamie,

Hey, you can use the word 'sucks' as often as you like. It's been used an awful lot in your absence, mostly as in "Rob Liefeld sucks".

> Falcon

Who ? Tell me who ? Cuz when I get my hands on them ...

Jamie

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Falcon on July 31, 1997 at 18:40:15 PDT
in reply to Who ? (1411), posted by Jamie on July 31, 1997 at 18:16:14 PDT

>
> Jamie,
>
> Hey, you can use the word 'sucks' as often as you like. It's been used an awful lot in your absence, mostly as in "Rob Liefeld sucks".

> > Falcon

> Who ? Tell me who ? Cuz when I get my hands on them ...

>
> Jamie

Oh, just about everybody, give or take a few

Falcon

Host = 164.middletown-005.va.dial-access.att.net (207.116.100.164)

Posted by agent america on July 31, 1997 at 18:58:25 PDT
in reply to Re: Who ? (1412), posted by Falcon on July 31, 1997 at 18:40:15 PDT

Today I got judgment day omega 2 today you should get it.

Host = 208.10.2.43 (208.10.2.43)

Posted by Jack Monroe on July 31, 1997 at 19:01:31 PDT
in reply to stut up I like him (1413), posted by agent america on July 31, 1997 at 18:58:25 PDT

>
> Today I got judgment day omega 2 today you should get it.

I did and it was nothing but a convoluted piece of crap. I liked
Robs run on New Mutants and X Force but his work on Cap was crap
and what Awesome has put out lately is crap. Sorry to use crap so
much

Host = dial-04.r06.tncphl.infoave.net (204.116.109.204)

Posted by Fixer on July 31, 1997 at 19:06:32 PDT
in reply to Re: stut up I like him (1414), posted by Jack Monroe on July 31, 1997 at 19:01:31 PDT

> >
> > Today I got judgment day omega 2 today you should get it.

> I did and it was nothing but a convoluted piece of crap. I liked
> Robs run on New Mutants and X Force but his work on Cap was crap
> and what Awesome has put out lately is crap. Sorry to use crap so
> much

Sorry, Jack, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Alan Moore -- a God among comic writers -- is weaving an enticing tale that literally works it's way through the complete Awesome Universe. All of the new Supreme-heroes popping up are --excuse the term-- awesome (Conquerers. heh. heh).

But Rob Liefeld's art was crap.

--Fixer
worships the ground Moore walks on

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Posted by agent america on July 31, 1997 at 20:52:01 PDT
in reply to Re: stut up I like him (1415), posted by Fixer on July 31, 1997 at 19:06:32 PDT

Okay what is the diffrent between jugdment day alpha and omega

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Posted by Fixer on July 31, 1997 at 21:10:10 PDT
in reply to fixer I want to now something (1416), posted by agent america on July 31, 1997 at 20:52:01 PDT

> Okay what is the diffrent between jugdment day alpha and omega

Judgement Day Alpha is the first part in the Judgement Day trilogy. Judgement Day Omega is the second. And for the life of me I can't think of the name of the third.

Basically, if this is the first issue you got, then you got the second issue of a three part series.

How did you like it?

--Fixer
is actually excited about a Liefeld book

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Posted by Sledge on July 31, 1997 at 21:32:41 PDT
in reply to Re: stut up I like him (1415), posted by Fixer on July 31, 1997 at 19:06:32 PDT

>
> > >
> > > Today I got judgment day omega 2 today you should get it.

> > I did and it was nothing but a convoluted piece of crap. I liked
> > Robs run on New Mutants and X Force but his work on Cap was crap
> > and what Awesome has put out lately is crap. Sorry to use crap so
> > much

> Sorry, Jack, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Alan Moore -- a God among comic writers -- is weaving an enticing tale that literally works it's way through the complete Awesome Universe. All of the new Supreme-heroes popping up are --excuse the term-- awesome (Conquerers. heh. heh).

> But Rob Liefeld's art was crap.

> --Fixer
> worships the ground Moore walks on

For an Alan Moore story it's severely lacking. This comes from an Alan Moore fan. It's not his stongest work, but it's not bad.

Liefeld's art in it is horrid. Did he ever learn to draw a background? Flip through it, there no backgrounds in he Liefeld parts. There's just scratches and lines. And surrounding his poor art with the art of talented pro's makes his look even worse. Bad idea.

-=Sledge=-

Host = line24.si-net.com (208.196.38.38)

Posted by Batroc on July 31, 1997 at 22:26:55 PDT
in reply to I'm back ! (1409), posted by Jamie on July 31, 1997 at 17:48:36 PDT

> Fanboys,
> Hey, long time no see ! Still holding your grudge against me ?
> Well, I won't use the word "sucks" again, okay ? Oops, just did !
> Okay, see ya !
> Jamie
>> Welcome back, I think we have actually missed you. I think you will like Agent America, he is a fellow Rob Liefield fan.
I still think you two will be in the minority however. I've decided not to discuss Liefield anymore since he is no longer on Cap's creative team. Although,,,to each his own.
Again welcome back, Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 31, 1997 at 22:30:04 PDT
in reply to how did cap ... (1407), posted by Charles-y on July 31, 1997 at 10:58:11 PDT

> in the heros reborn how did cap get that new symbol there in the comic he didn't put it there how did it get there just wondering?
>>>If you are talking about the eagle on his head, it was merely Rob Liefield playing God or overstepping the good tastes of creative liscensing.
The Eagle was a symbol for SHIELD and I suppose signified that Cap was under their auspices.
Hey, I feel a post from Jamie coming. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 31, 1997 at 22:32:58 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap 11 (1403), posted by Patriot on July 30, 1997 at 19:16:18 PDT

»
> > Did Cap 11 come out today?
> > It was on the NCRL but it was nowhere to be found at my shop.
> > What gives?
> > --Fixer
> > wants his Cap
> I want my Cap too but it didn't come out. It's been delayed a week.
> A Patriot without a comic.
>>>> I sojourned to the comic shop to find Cap delayed. I also got ripped off because my Fantastic Four had about 8 story pages missing. Anyone else experience this phenonmenon?? I may just be on an unlucky streak, I have blown out three light bulbs in two days. Batroc the unlucky Leaper

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Posted by Batroc on July 31, 1997 at 22:34:16 PDT
in reply to Re: Batroc Ze Leaper Ain't Crazy (?) (1406), posted by David Medinnus on July 31, 1997 at 09:52:16 PDT

»
> > I told you a long time ago, I AIN'T CRAZY!!
> I fail to see how you being correct has ANTHING to do with you being (or not being) crazy... :)
> -DM
>>>>You will just have to take my word on it. Ze Lepair

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